learning PLO8--400 hand

mosta · #1 11-26-2005, 12:32 AM

Ad Qd 2s 5h. I limp in ep and four of us see the flop of:

3c 3h 6d. I check and call a LP half pot bet ($8). I'm drawing to the nut low, with some protection (not much). I'm getting 3:1 on my call, so I'm not hurt being quartered. And I'm really hoping to pick up a diamond draw to the nut high or at least a gutshot. (we each started with about $800.)

3s. ($32) again he half-pots it ($15). So I'm getting 3:1 again, but I don't think this 3-to-one thing is going to be good for me if he keeps repeating it and then three-quarters me (or worse...)--but I'm not sure how to add it up. anyway, now I let it go.

comments? now that I look at it again, this hand seems kind of dumb but I'll post it anyway since I already wrote it.

Wolffink · #2 11-26-2005, 03:05 AM

Don't think 3:1 or some such thing first. You mention you don't know how to add it up.

Think: "Can I scoop?"

And "Am I drawing to the nuts?"

If the answer is no, and you're playing pot limit, and the bet is of any significance, doesn't matter what odds you're getting. The way you boil a frog is you boil it slowly. You might be getting 3:1 on the river too and lose most of your stack.

In this hand, you only have nut low draw. You're talking about getting a draw to a diamond draw when there's a pair on the board. This is not good. Not good at all. There are many hands that can beat you. You have no high and on the turn you still have no low. Even if you do get the low, you may be quartered.

mosta · #3 11-26-2005, 04:32 AM

you speak with wisdom.

JoshuaD · #4 11-26-2005, 02:26 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Don't think 3:1 or some such thing first. You mention you don't know how to add it up.

Think: "Can I scoop?"

And "Am I drawing to the nuts?"

If the answer is no, and you're playing pot limit, and the bet is of any significance, doesn't matter what odds you're getting. The way you boil a frog is you boil it slowly. You might be getting 3:1 on the river too and lose most of your stack.

In this hand, you only have nut low draw. You're talking about getting a draw to a diamond draw when there's a pair on the board. This is not good. Not good at all. There are many hands that can beat you. You have no high and on the turn you still have no low. Even if you do get the low, you may be quartered.

[/ QUOTE ]

This advice seems too simplistic for this buyin.

It seems to me like saying in LHE "You should pump on the flop whenever you have a flush draw and at least 2 opponents."

This is a big game, and you need to think dynamically. You can't just pedal nuts here.

Disclaimer: I've never played a hand of PL08.

#5 11-26-2005, 04:09 PM

Since PLO8 is a game of nuts you'd be hard pressed to find a player that doesn't peddle them.

WRT this hand: I probably raise it up pre flop, make a continuation bet on the flop, fold to a re-raise and fold the turn.

#6 11-26-2005, 05:17 PM

First off you're preflop play was very weak, esp. in PL O/8. You should make a sizeable raise with this hand in EP. You will probably get it 3 way or heads up if you do, thus strengthening your hand and getting a read on your opponents hands. You then miss the flop, but do have the nut low, a 6 high straight and a backdoor flush Draw, but the last two can't be given too much credence unless you're heads up. Most likely the 3 is out and will fill up. The problem being in EP is that you have no idea who will call behind if the bet comes before you. Now you are calling for a possible 1/2 the pot with bad probable odds. Best play here is probably to just muck it on the flop (without knowing the other players in the hand). Just keep in mind when playing a hand in EP in a PL game, you are at the disadvantage unless you flop the nuts . Hope this helps...

#7 11-27-2005, 06:45 PM

This is a raise preflop with your A2, two high cards, and the nut flush working. This is also a 3/4 bet on the flop. Check/calling puts you in awful position.

My turn play would depend on what he did on the flop ... but Id probably slow down on the turn. That was an awful card.

cero_z · #8 11-28-2005, 04:27 PM

Hi knoll,

[ QUOTE ]
You should make a sizeable raise with this hand in EP.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm new to this game, but I'm fairly certain this quote is wrong. I don't think you should be making large raises pre-flop in EP with any hand in a full game, and you especially shouldn't be doing it with this kind of hand only. The place for pre-flop raises is in back, or in any position if you're making lots of small, pot-building raises with a variety of hands.

Look at the JesuSmurf's post above where he raised with AA25, and the flop came JJ3. He had 2 callers in position against him, and was set up to lose the max or win the min. The value you get from your opening raise is small, given how closely decent hands run in EV pre-flop. Whatever you gain is more than made up for by what you lose by defining your hand.

Diamond Dave · #9 11-30-2005, 01:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]

I'm new to this game, but I'm fairly certain this quote is wrong. I don't think you should be making large raises pre-flop in EP with any hand in a full game, and you especially shouldn't be doing it with this kind of hand only. The place for pre-flop raises is in back, or in any position if you're making lots of small, pot-building raises with a variety of hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think there is a should or shouldn't here. There are plenty reasons to call or raise with this type of hand here.

[ QUOTE ]

Look at the JesuSmurf's post above where he raised with AA25, and the flop came JJ3. He had 2 callers in position against him, and was set up to lose the max or win the min. The value you get from your opening raise is small, given how closely decent hands run in EV pre-flop. Whatever you gain is more than made up for by what you lose by defining your hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

JJ3 certainly isn't the worst flop for that hand. And with AA25 isn't what you are looking for more money in the pot and less players? That's a raise nearly every time in my book, regardless of position.

Cheers

DD

gergery · #10 11-30-2005, 02:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
JJ3 certainly isn't the worst flop for that hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

JJ3 is a pretty bad flop for you. Not because someone else is now likely to have a better hand, but because your opponent are now not likely to have a good 2nd best hand.

If you bet out on this flop everytime, and are called, how often will you have the best hand? If you do have the best hand, how often will you be pushed off it by a big bet on the turn?

-g