Please tell me, why do experienced players have 'Amnesia'?

[bernie]

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How do you know it was an experienced player? Most experienced players want to keep the game fun and light with a gambling air.

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I think you mean most 'winning' players. Plenty of 'experienced' players berate new players. You know, these same guys that brag that they've played for 30+ years but still don't like raising aces on the button with 5 limpers because they can't get anyone out and anyone that does is an idiot...

Yeah, those types of guys.

b

[SNOWBALL138]

Hi CincyLady,

These "experienced players" that you are talking about are probably mostly losing players. They behave that way because they are troubled people, and are losers in life. Making fun of you for calling with a counterfitted underpair or forgetting to post your blind is one of the few moments that they can feel better than someone else.

Why begrudge them that, when you can just play better and take their money instead?

The other night, a losing player called me a "chip burner" and he went on to insult me further, and then he finally said "thats okay, I love chip burners." My response was "Good, I'm glad to be of service."

Obviously, what happened to you was more severe than that. I'm very glad that the poker room manager handled the situation so well. I'm also glad that you found the twoplustwo publishing website. You'll be happy to hear that many 2+2ers refuse to tolerate abusive behavior at the tables. Welcome aboard.

Cheers,
Snowball

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Based on your response here, it seems you have the same attitude for New Posters in the forum here, as I suspect you treat Newbies at the table.

So, Thank you VERY much for just proving my point ... and IMO, becoming the Poster boy for this issue.


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My post was absolutely, 100% a joke. I guess I should have made that clear. My original read of your post left me with the impression that the guy at your table was a real ass. That is still probably true, but it appears that you may be a bit hypersensitive.

- MAC

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Mac, no, I'm not hypersensitive, but here on the net, I can't see your smile, or if it's a sincere one or not. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

That said, I've been around BBS systems for over 25 years now, since the very first ones were born back before the Internet became popular.

Back then, you had to use most often, a 300 baud modem (1200's didn't come later, and when they did, boy were they expensive, but we were glad to have them back then), and some cobbled together computer to access them.

I myself was a SysOp (System Operator) of an old style BBS system.

Hence, I know it can take only ONE person, if their jabs (be they just in fun, or truly are a personal attack on someone) are left unanswered, to derail a serious discussion, and turn it into a Flame war and name calling session.

This because others will then take the unanswered dig, as permission that THEY also can go in that same direction.

Hence, why I responded as I did.

If you're serious, and you were 'Just Kidding' then you should state as such in the message a little further down, and then add some serious input to the thread.

JMHO, FWIW ...

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Hi CincyLady,

These "experienced players" that you are talking about are probably mostly losing players. They behave that way because they are troubled people, and are losers in life. Making fun of you for calling with a counterfitted underpair or forgetting to post your blind is one of the few moments that they can feel better than someone else.

Why begrudge them that, when you can just play better and take their money instead?

The other night, a losing player called me a "chip burner" and he went on to insult me further, and then he finally said "thats okay, I love chip burners." My response was "Good, I'm glad to be of service."

Obviously, what happened to you was more severe than that. I'm very glad that the poker room manager handled the situation so well. I'm also glad that you found the twoplustwo publishing website. You'll be happy to hear that many 2+2ers refuse to tolerate abusive behavior at the tables. Welcome aboard.

Cheers,
Snowball

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Thanks for the welcome Snowball! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

The thing is though, I guess another question I might have then, is why do those who ARE truly 'experienced' (Good) Players, who are sitting at the same table, ALLOW for it to happen or continue then?

I mean had not that manager gone the extra mile and looked up my phone number, I wouldn't be in poker today.

I simply would of thought it too stressful a game, and walked away from it.

I wonder how many newbies to poker HAVE walked away from Poker, due to the rudeness of 'bad' players who have been playing a long time, and 'experienced' (good) Players, sitting at the same table, who don't stand up for the Newbie, and allow for it to either happen, or allow for the (bad) behavior to continue??

[4_2_it]

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I think you mean most 'winning' players.

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You are correct sir! (Thanks for the assist)

[jb9]

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Ego.
These 'experienced' players have given up learning. Being engulfed in the denial that they actually do suck at the game, they instead find solace in berating new players plays.

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I think this is a big big part of this attitude of berating the inexperienced -- in poker and life.

People have a strong natural tendency to want to think well of themselves and to assign blame for situations they are unhappy about rather than accepting the fact that it is their own fault or bad luck or some combination thereof.

Often if there is no clear place to assign blame (or it is too risky to assign blame where it belongs) people will seek out scapegoats to satisfy their need to blame someone (which they MUST do or else they will have to confront the possibility that they have failed or the world is a bad place -- two things they refuse to consider).

So, if someone 'knows' that he is a good poker player and can beat the game but keeps losing, then it must be someone else's fault. It may not be entirely clear who is at fault, so the player defaults to blaming the easiest person to blame -- the new player who doesn't know anyone at the table and is probably insecure enough to not know how to react.

Thus order is restored to the player's world view... he is still a good player (obviously better than you -- as he just explained/proved), poker is still a beatable game, and his losses are your fault.

CincyLady,

First let me say that I think what happened to you is terrible - I can't stand when people berate others at the poker table - it is bad form.

I will also say that I think some of the other posters here are right in that the player or players who were berating you were probably NOT good players - perhaps experienced, but not good players. A good player would NEVER berate you like that - they WANT you making mistakes so that they can take advantage of them.

Having said that - and I am going to say this with all due respect - looking back on your experience, can you see where your own fault lies in this incident? Or, put another way, can you see that this incident may have, in fact, been of tremendous benefit to you?

I am guessing that this was the last time you ever left a poker room crying and clutching your chips - correct? Moreover, I am pretty sure that this incident toughened you up tremendously and has probably made you a better player.

I had a similar experience early on - my first B&M game was at Commerce Casino and I was berated quite a bit as well - and I let it affect me and I made some stupid plays - I honestly didn't know much about the game at the time and I got killed. But as I walked out of there, I vowed that I would never be taken advantage of like that again - and I never was.

So many players will go to the tables and lose repeatedly, all the time thinking that they are simply a victim of bad luck or some such thing - you were told, point-blank, that you sucked.

For that, you should be tremendously thankful.

[bodie]

I always think it's rude to publicy berate a player for how they play. I also hate it when players blame the dealer for the cards they're getting, or sit and complain about every single thing going on around them.
However I also think that the poker players sitting around me are not my "friends" and that it's best to remember that. Sure you can have a great time and get quite friendly, but don't assume that's how everyone feels. Too many opponents are there to make the money off you, and can be abrasive. Playing poker is not really for the faint of heart in more ways than one.
You have to be able to be aggressive; not afraid to risk money; and able to stand up for yourself if someone is being a "jerk".

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CincyLady,

First let me say that I think what happened to you is terrible - I can't stand when people berate others at the poker table - it is bad form.

I will also say that I think some of the other posters here are right in that the player or players who were berating you were probably NOT good players - perhaps experienced, but not good players. A good player would NEVER berate you like that - they WANT you making mistakes so that they can take advantage of them.

Having said that - and I am going to say this with all due respect - looking back on your experience, can you see where your own fault lies in this incident? Or, put another way, can you see that this incident may have, in fact, been of tremendous benefit to you?

I am guessing that this was the last time you ever left a poker room crying and clutching your chips - correct? Moreover, I am pretty sure that this incident toughened you up tremendously and has probably made you a better player.

I had a similar experience early on - my first B&M game was at Commerce Casino and I was berated quite a bit as well - and I let it affect me and I made some stupid plays - I honestly didn't know much about the game at the time and I got killed. But as I walked out of there, I vowed that I would never be taken advantage of like that again - and I never was.

So many players will go to the tables and lose repeatedly, all the time thinking that they are simply a victim of bad luck or some such thing - you were told, point-blank, that you sucked.

For that, you should be tremendously thankful.

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I'll address the last part, first.

If I had simply been told I sucked, I could of handled it. However, this jerk made it personal, and NOT so much about the cards I played.

How do I say this ... I'm not the 'Babe' type that everyone likes to flirt at the table with for the most part. I'm also old enough most times, to be the Mother of most of the young guns at the table (I have a son, who'll be 26 in March).

I am however (Or I like to think so), someone who is smart, and likes to find things out.

Hence, he was attacking my looks, my age, and so on, and yes, he was announcing my 'bad plays' as well, but that's not what had upset me.

It was the personal attacks.

Try as I might, I'm still a woman, and when my feelings get repeatedly hurt, and I'm NOT expecting for that to happen (like when it's not happened before in a given situation), I can't help it. The tears come, then I get upset with myself that the tears came, and that frustrates me, and that in and of itself makes my cry some more. Thus it becomes a vicious cycle, where the only way out, is to leave.

I wasn't expecting the personal attacks, especially in that setting. I was expecting a fun, entertaining evening, learning how to play poker.

In any case, this was a few years ago. I hesitated in posting this story (as I've seen the attacks that some here have leveled on people for opening up here), but felt I had to, in order to get my point across.

I have to say I've been pleasently surprised for the most part, by the adult conversation and attitudes of the people responding here, and for that I'm grateful.

As for the incident itself, had not the Manager of the poker room gone that extra mile and tracked me down and talked to me, it might of gone the other way, and I wouldn't be playing poker today.

That said, he did (track me down, and make it right for me), and the one thing I took away from it, was I'd NEVER EVER let anyone not only do that to myself, but to anyone ELSE either, be they a newbie or yes, even an 'experienced' player.

Talk about the play, yes, give CONSTRUCTIVE critisisim or make constructive suggestions, yes ... however, make it a personal thing, by attacking the person by calling them names, like dufus, donkey, and saying stuff like he/she is sooo stupid, they must be a total putz .. and so on ... there is no way in hell will I EVER stand by and watch that be done to someone else, like it had been done to me.

It's perhaps why I tend to 'come to the rescue' of newbies, even when not asked, when I see them being attacked or pursecuted for doing or saying something at the table, that they simply didn't know any better about (not to do it, or in some case, to do a given thing).

IMO, ya gotta sit before you stand, and crawl before you can walk, and walk before you run. Skip any of these steps, regardless of how fast you achive them, and you've missed some basic principle along the way, that you really (still) need to learn.

One of those things IMO, is also remembering your roots, or in this case, remembering those 'training wheels of poker' from when (regardless of how long ago it was) you first learned how to play the game.

So yes, it did change me, and make me stronger in a way as well. However, that was one HELL of a way to learn that lesson, don't you agree?

I also can't understand why people can't remember the shoes they walked in back when they were a beginner.

They say things (even KNOWING that the person in question was/is a beginner at the time) like 'I don't understand why they didn't lay that down ... that's such an EASY laydown for me".

My question to them is ... just how long did you play BEFORE it BECAME an easy lay down for you?

The thing is it seems (and why I put this thread in the psycology forum), and I hate to say it, but this is especially so for men, is that many players just can't seem to admit that they didn't walk into the poker room on Day one, being 'Gods Gift to Poker', and they made their share of faux paus, both technical and ediquite wise.

In any case, this is good feedback ... and I'm glad I'm here, as it seems there are a (majority of) good bunch of people here, with good input.

[chessforlife]

it's arrogance, and the fact that putting others down make one feel bigger. my qustion is : what led you to assume you'd find humanity in a poker hall?