"Unions are Evil"

[whiskeytown]

watch Harlan County USA or American Dream...

Unions keep workers and families making a fair wage - Maybe not EVERY Union - but far and away I think Rural and Blue Collar America benefits from them -

Of course if your sole goal is to pull a bait-and-switch on people who come to work for you and cut wages to increase stock options, then yah, they're bad -

Only people that hate unions or think they're bad are rich people - period.

RB

[Meech]

[ QUOTE ]
Only people that hate unions or think they're bad are rich people - period.

[/ QUOTE ]

Heh.


We have this guy that stumbles into our weekly game occaisonally. The ongoing joke is that he only shows up when he's working (union big 3 job). The sad part is it's true.

I know you guys will say sample size, etc. But growing up in the motor city these stories are all too common. Working with engineers, plant managers -- sometimes I am amazed that the domestic automobile business is still alive at all.

I think the phrase "not in my job description" had to have originated with a union member.

[bobman0330]

[ QUOTE ]
watch Harlan County USA or American Dream...

Unions keep workers and families making a fair wage - Maybe not EVERY Union - but far and away I think Rural and Blue Collar America benefits from them -

Of course if your sole goal is to pull a bait-and-switch on people who come to work for you and cut wages to increase stock options, then yah, they're bad -

Only people that hate unions or think they're bad are rich people - period.

RB

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe instead of getting your information from movies, you should look in the real world. Particularly the huge swathes of the country that are largely un-unionized. Also consider the fact that unions lose most certification fights.

[whiskeytown]

there is a difference between auto unions and many other unions as well - auto unions sorta have their own screwed up way of doing things - that's why you're seeing so many fractures and issues within the big unions -

Detroit bad apples do not invalidate the whole union cause -

RB

[whiskeytown]

you are aware that those movies are documentaries that are shot in the real world with real people, right? Real issues where Americans even DIED because the foreman shot one who was on a picket line - shotgun blast to the face.

Maybe you should be better informed before you open your mouth - Those movies are Award Winning Documentaries about the plight and purpose of Rural unions in America. They are as informative as any book on the subject you'll read and have inspired books themselves.

RB

[bobman0330]

[ QUOTE ]
you are aware that those movies are documentaries that are shot in the real world with real people, right? Real issues where Americans even DIED because the foreman shot one who was on a picket line - shotgun blast to the face.

Maybe you should be better informed before you open your mouth - Those movies are Award Winning Documentaries about the plight and purpose of Rural unions in America. They are as informative as any book on the subject you'll read and have inspired books themselves.

RB

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, documentaries. When you put it that way, I guess my advice is:

"Maybe instead of getting your information from movies, you should look in the real world. Particularly the huge swathes of the country that are largely un-unionized. Also consider the fact that unions lose most certification fights. "

[Meech]

Granted most of my experience relates to auto unions. But isn't what where it all started? Aren't those the "prototypical" unions?

Try and do a trade show at a detroit expo center. You are _forced_ to pay union scale wage to an electrician to screw in a light bulb.

Again, perhaps I am jaded because I was raised in a union region. But to me, the unions main purposes are to:

- Extort money from the membership.
- Artificially inflate wages.
- Defend those who perform below average.
- Punish those who perform above average.

The day and age where unskilled labor can earn $30/hour are gone. Loooong gone.

[adios]

IMO one of the reasons for the decline in unions is that the workforce has changed a great deal over the years. The days of the unskilled laborer being in demand are over in this country. Many people that acquire skills that are desirable for employers don't wish to throw their lot in with people they feel are less skilled. There's a place for unions but there is less need for them now as compared to 20-30 years ago.

[imported_Chuck Weinstock]

One can argue that the unions and management of the US steel industry joined together to destroy that industry in the 1970's. Does that make them evil? Probably not (same for management.) But it was criminally stupid of both sides.

I haven't studied the auto industry as much so I can't make the same claim about the UAW and the Big Three automakers, but I'd be willing to bet that there is a strong parallel.

FWIW, my Father's company was essentially put out of business by the Union (this was in the 1970's as well.) It's a long story which I'd be happy to share at some other time, but basically it had to do with job classifications and (domestic) competition and even though the Union never had a complaint with my Dad's company and always were treated properly they refused to negotiate on this and the company shut its doors. The company was in a vibrant industry in Chicago. Within 2 or 3 years after this what was left of the industry in Chicago was gone as well. Evil? No. Stupid? I think so but YMMV.

Chuck

[slamdunkpro]

Isn't this the strike that led to the Yablonsky murders?