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Old 07-28-2005, 10:32 AM
Zetack Zetack is offline
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Default Home game confusrion, are these typical rules?

So I go play in a little 12 man home tourney last night.

Afterwards, four of us play a cash game with rules that made my head spin. The guys acted like this was pretty standard home game stuff and I was really odd for wanting to play something like the standard games I'm familiar with.

They played some variations but basically we played three games, hold em, omaha, and topeka (three card hold em).

They played with an ante instead of blinds.

This was problematic for me because it sort of kills the ability to be patient. You're almost in a must play every pot. Also your ability to make people make mistakes pre-flop goes way down because there aren't a whole lot of hands that its incorrect to call a raise with. Also it puts me in the position of playing almost every hand for that exact reason.

Most hands were a limit structure pre-flop and a modified pot limit post flop. So no pot sized bets pre-flop. So we all ante 2 bucks, since I can only raise 2 if I raise the next guy is getting 5-1 (10 dollars in the pot) the second guy 6-1 and the third guy 7-1 on their 2 dollar calls. Conversely, I pretty much had to call a raise with any two getting 6 or 7 to one. Then if somebody bets out post flop you have 18 bucks in the pot and are getting 9-1 or better every time depending on where you act after the bettor.

Post flop either (depending on how the dealer called it) pot limit or limit unless you wanted to make a pot sized bet. In the second version if we were playing with a 2 dollar ante, after the flop you could either make a 2 dollar bet/raise, or you could bet the pot.

If you bet the pot, however, betting ended, you could be called but then there was no betting on the turn and river.

In the closer to regular pot-limit form they played, after the flop you could bet any amount up to the pot, if you potted it though, again betting ended.

So its a structure that gets everybody to see a flop, and lets you see a relatively cheap showdown by betting the pot and ending the betting.

The final rule I had trouble with is that they had rotating action. Pf, the guy to the left of the dealer would act first. On the flop the guy to his left acted first, on the turn the guy to his left acted first, and (in a four handed game) the dealer would act first on the river.

So the advantage of position disappears.


No way to make people make mistakes pre-flop, very little ability to try and wait for good hands, and limited ability to protect your hand post flop, and no positional advantage. Man I was stumped.

Any thoughts on whether this is a normal sort of structure? In addition to not knowing how to play omaha or 3 card hold em, I have no idea how to adjust for these conditions.


I was lucky enough to more than double up early, and then other players bought chips in the amount of my buy-in off of me and I put that money in my pocket so I broke even on the day when I eventually lost all my chips (which it was pretty clear to me I was going to do.)

Much as I would like to play some live ring games, I have to say, not knowing what the hell I'm doing isn't much fun, so if I keep playing with these guys I may have to just stick to the tourney side of it.

--Zetack
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  #2  
Old 07-28-2005, 12:00 PM
nolanfan34 nolanfan34 is offline
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Location: Oly, WA
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Default Re: Home game confusrion, are these typical rules?

No, those rules aren't typical. The rotating position thing is really dumb, I don't understand that. I'd strongly try to urge them to keep the action the same for each round of betting. Use the words "like casinos do", that might help.

Otherwise, I wouldn't change my strategy PF too much when it comes to worrying about people calling. In my experience, when I've played with friends who like to use antes instead of blinds, generally they're not sophisticated enough to understand PF odds. They'll make folds getting 7-1 or whatever that should be easy calls.
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Old 07-28-2005, 12:24 PM
Freakin Freakin is offline
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Default Re: Home game confusrion, are these typical rules?

This is really lame. Seems like a bunch of home games just want to play to see the flop, and set up their rules accordingly. I woudln't even bother with this game, and tell them why you think so (obviously don't say stuff like proper pot-odds preflop, and no benefits to position). It appears that they understand what gives players an edge, and are seeking to destroy it in every way possible.

Tell them to get out of the kiddie pool.

Freakin
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Old 07-28-2005, 04:40 PM
Zetack Zetack is offline
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Default Re: Home game confusrion, are these typical rules?

[ QUOTE ]
This is really lame. Seems like a bunch of home games just want to play to see the flop, and set up their rules accordingly. I woudln't even bother with this game, and tell them why you think so (obviously don't say stuff like proper pot-odds preflop, and no benefits to position). It appears that they understand what gives players an edge, and are seeking to destroy it in every way possible.

Tell them to get out of the kiddie pool.

Freakin

[/ QUOTE ]


Thanks guys. I thought the game was really effed up, but the guys in it made me feel dumb, like of course this is the way its done, that other stuff is just for casino play cause its set up for the benefit of the casinos. And I just haven't played any non-tourney home games so I had no idea, other than I didn't like their rules much.


--Zetack
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  #5  
Old 07-28-2005, 07:18 PM
FouTight FouTight is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2005
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Default Re: Home game confusrion, are these typical rules?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This is really lame. Seems like a bunch of home games just want to play to see the flop, and set up their rules accordingly. I woudln't even bother with this game, and tell them why you think so (obviously don't say stuff like proper pot-odds preflop, and no benefits to position). It appears that they understand what gives players an edge, and are seeking to destroy it in every way possible.

Tell them to get out of the kiddie pool.

Freakin

[/ QUOTE ]


Thanks guys. I thought the game was really effed up, but the guys in it made me feel dumb, like of course this is the way its done, that other stuff is just for casino play cause its set up for the benefit of the casinos. And I just haven't played any non-tourney home games so I had no idea, other than I didn't like their rules much.


--Zetack

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not cut and dry though, people always refer to things as a "serious game" or a "Social game", but it's not like that, there are various degrees of social games.

I play in a lot of home games, some follow very strict rules and play tournaments, and others we play dealers choice games and just cut up, but they are all social games.

In the dealer choice games, we ante every game, because some games are ante games, some are blind games, but it's not fair to the players if you post blinds when the guy to your right picks a blind game, and then have to post again when someone else picks an ante game. If you dont' enjoy that style of play, thats just not a game for you, I wouldn't try to change the way the play.
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  #6  
Old 07-29-2005, 01:51 PM
Zetack Zetack is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 656
Default Re: Home game confusrion, are these typical rules?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This is really lame. Seems like a bunch of home games just want to play to see the flop, and set up their rules accordingly. I woudln't even bother with this game, and tell them why you think so (obviously don't say stuff like proper pot-odds preflop, and no benefits to position). It appears that they understand what gives players an edge, and are seeking to destroy it in every way possible.

Tell them to get out of the kiddie pool.

Freakin

[/ QUOTE ]


Thanks guys. I thought the game was really effed up, but the guys in it made me feel dumb, like of course this is the way its done, that other stuff is just for casino play cause its set up for the benefit of the casinos. And I just haven't played any non-tourney home games so I had no idea, other than I didn't like their rules much.


--Zetack

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not cut and dry though, people always refer to things as a "serious game" or a "Social game", but it's not like that, there are various degrees of social games.

I play in a lot of home games, some follow very strict rules and play tournaments, and others we play dealers choice games and just cut up, but they are all social games.

In the dealer choice games, we ante every game, because some games are ante games, some are blind games, but it's not fair to the players if you post blinds when the guy to your right picks a blind game, and then have to post again when someone else picks an ante game. If you dont' enjoy that style of play, thats just not a game for you, I wouldn't try to change the way the play.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, good advice, I'm not going to try and change em, they seem pretty set in their ways of doing things. Its just too bad since this would be a weekly game. I'm not willing to drop a hundred or two a week in a game I don't like and am probably the fish in.

--Zetack
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  #7  
Old 07-29-2005, 02:00 PM
chesspain chesspain is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Southern New Hampshire
Posts: 1,930
Default Re: Home game confusrion, are these typical rules?

[ QUOTE ]
In the dealer choice games, we ante every game, because some games are ante games, some are blind games, but it's not fair to the players if you post blinds when the guy to your right picks a blind game, and then have to post again when someone else picks an ante game.

[/ QUOTE ]

The way I handle my dealer's choice home game is to make one's choice last for the entire orbit, with the dealer of each individual hand (in ante games) posting the antes for everyone. This means that the posted antes even out by the end of the orbit.

Having the dealer post antes eliminates the need for the smaller denomination chips which wouldn't be needed for the HE/Omaha games, and eliminates the almost constant question "O.K., who forget to ante?"
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