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#1
06-21-2005, 07:18 PM
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Pair and flush draw round 2 on the button?????
Before I get a million replies saying fold preflop I want to explain my call. I'm on the button with position on the Chip Leader. Normally I never call with SCs anywhere.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (8 handed) converter UTG (t1500) UTG+1 (t1000) MP1 (t3760) MP2 (t1630) CO (t1170) Hero (t1285) SB (t1655) BB (t1500) Preflop: Hero is Button with 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP1 calls t30, MP2 calls t30, CO calls t30, Hero calls t30, SB completes, BB checks. Flop: (t180) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font> SB checks, BB checks, MP1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets t90</font>, CO calls t90 HERO???? would you guys normally play this for value and raise a bit, or move in semi bluff... well or fold but I think fold is out of the question. I called with the hand preflop and this flop is sick. So fold would kinda be stupid. 
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#2
06-21-2005, 07:46 PM
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Re: Pair and flush draw round 2 on the button?????
Nick, you're playing on pokerstars, which means your starting stack is nearly double the normal starting stacks at Party. So, there shouldn't bee too many "fold preflop" posts. You have room to make these plays.
Unfortunately, you didn't post your buyin. Which makes reading your HH a little different. If I were you I'd play here, but I need to know your buyin to determine an optimal play.
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#4
06-22-2005, 03:11 PM
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Re: Pair and flush draw round 2 on the button?????
Why would you play this for value? You are somewhere around 50% to win pot if it goes to the river. Just about the worst place for a value bet. You want to take it down now if you can.
Plus your outs are pretty obvious, unless you catch a 6, so how do you plan to extract value if you hit? Pop it to 425 or push.
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#5
06-22-2005, 08:45 PM
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Re: Pair and flush draw round 2 on the button?????
thanks for the reply.
first of all i asked which one you guys would do, i never said which one I perferred more. And second raising to 425 sounds like a value raise to me. Moving in would not be. If you raise the pot you're trying to create a call for the wrong amount, if you were ahead that is. You're behind in the hand at the present but they don't know that. Moving in would be shutting him out of the pot. Raising to 425 or pushing is exactly the question I'm asking. They are two completely different plays.
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#6
06-22-2005, 09:09 PM
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Re: Pair and flush draw round 2 on the button?????
THis is what im thinking here:
Preflop- because of the amount of starting chips I would call this. If it were party im folding. Flop- theres a raise and a call, I have middle pair and a middle flush draw. Ive got two 8's that could help me and about seven clubs. I wouldnt count 9 club outs only because there might be higher club draws out there that can beat you. Were getting 4 to 1 on a call that may or may not win even if you hit. Im thinking that to win this we have to bet the pot and kill anyone elses pot odds and make it incorrect for them to call. I would not move all in, its just too early and theres noth that much money in there.
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#7
06-22-2005, 09:22 PM
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Re: Pair and flush draw round 2 on the button?????
Hmmm. Where to start.
[ QUOTE ] thanks for the reply. [/ QUOTE ] You're welcome. [ QUOTE ] first of all i asked which one you guys would do, i never said which one I perferred more. [/ QUOTE ] You asked if you should raise "a bit." I offered as one of my options "raising slightly more than the pot." I see those as different. [ QUOTE ] And second raising to 425 sounds like a value raise to me. [/ QUOTE ] A "value bet" is one that you want your opponents to call because you are a large favorite. Please google for "poker glossary" if this is not clear. Raising to 425 is not a value bet in this situation. It is a semi-bluff with an especially strong drawing hand. [ QUOTE ] Moving in would not be. [/ QUOTE ] Moving in would add strength to the semi-bluff. The question to ask yourself is "will I fold to a re-raise." The answer was not immediately clear to me , and I didn't feel like analyzing it, but if the answer is "yes, I will consider a fold", then raise to 425. Otherwise, you might as well push to start with. [ QUOTE ] If you raise the pot you're trying to create a call for the wrong amount, if you were ahead that is. [/ QUOTE ] It all depends on the amount of the raise, as discussed above. [ QUOTE ] You're behind in the hand at the present but they don't know that. [/ QUOTE ] Actually, you are about 50-50, as a guesstimate. This situation cries out for a pot-sized bet. [ QUOTE ] Moving in would be shutting him out of the pot. [/ QUOTE ] Hey, we agree on this one! [ QUOTE ] Raising to 425 or pushing is exactly the question I'm asking. They are two completely different plays. [/ QUOTE ] Looking at it again, I'm not folding to a reraise, so I push. Hope this helps.
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