Props and check-raising

[KenProspero]

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Because even though you and I view Check-Raising as a part of the game, there are many people who view it as a dirty trick.

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Yeah, and they should be playing Old Maid, not poker. To the OP, Nit was way out of line. Any player at the poker table should have the same tools available as any other player.

I'd love to play at a game where some other players have voluntarily crippled their game -- but wait -- that's why God created fish.

[Terry]

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my question remains unanswered.

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It takes a lot of people by surprise the first time they see it but it really is very common.

Most poker dealers don’t really play very well and experienced players usually welcome the action. It’s been said that a poker player’s favorite fantasy is to see a table with nine white shirts and an empty seat. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[jetsg4]

well, if he were to look at the big picture... depending on the situation... there might not have been a game for them to play in if it weren't for the props, so he should STFU and pay the extra bet

[bernie]

Nothing new. Player (mostly older farts) still take checkraising personal. When a employee does it, they instantly think something is up since the dealer and player work together at the same place. OR they think that an employee shouldn't be doing such a 'personal' move against them as it reflects(to them) badly on the establishment.

Yep, it's BS and these mopes are whiny bitches, but it's nothing new. I know many dealers/floor that wouldn't play players in 'their' rooms hard. For the very reasons stated: Tips when they are working. I've had a dealer apologize to me for c/r'ing me before. I said don't worry about it and encouraged him to play me hard when he can. Unfortuantely, the majority of nitty wimps don't share that sentiment.

It's stupid and sad, but true.

The problem is some of these regular idiots are the ones that hold the game together during the slow times. You don't want to piss off your core players that are making your paycheck.

b

[rogue]

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I already stated I'm ignorant about this, but still my question remains unanswered. How does having dealers play as well benefit the casino? I can imagine so many bad scenarios (dealer being hot & breaking somone and being accused of cheating, dealer losing a big hand and tilting off at a customer, etc.). So in some way the casinos must benefit more than these drawbacks for them to be in favor it. It the rake the dealer contributes that worthwhile?

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I think you are missing the point that the dealers are playing while on the clock, but not in a game they are actually dealing in. There is another dealer dealing the cards, and the dealer playing is getting his wage (without tips of course) to play poker, not deal and play at the same time.

[Alex/Mugaaz]

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I already stated I'm ignorant about this, but still my question remains unanswered. How does having dealers play as well benefit the casino? I can imagine so many bad scenarios (dealer being hot & breaking somone and being accused of cheating, dealer losing a big hand and tilting off at a customer, etc.). So in some way the casinos must benefit more than these drawbacks for them to be in favor it. It the rake the dealer contributes that worthwhile?

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I think you are missing the point that the dealers are playing while on the clock, but not in a game they are actually dealing in. There is another dealer dealing the cards, and the dealer playing is getting his wage (without tips of course) to play poker, not deal and play at the same time.

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That explains it all thanks! haha. I thought deal + play combo.

[magoo]

The complainer was probably angry about something I have observed in Horseshoe Tunica. "Prop"? A "prop" is used to fill games and to start games, in short handed scenarios.

THOSE PROFESSIONAL CARD PLAYERS WHO DOUBLE AS DEALERS in Horseshoe are NOT "props". Real props typically leave a game, where there is a long list of persons waiting to play.
The so-called props in Horseshoe KEEP THE SEAT TIED UP, sometimes for hours. I have personally seen a Horseshoe dealer, playing in a game, leave that game, where he HAD HIS BUDDY PLAY HIS MONEY, until the dealer did his time in the "box"...THEN RETURNED TO THE GAME (full of tourists) !!! That's not a "prop". That's a professional player making money, from the visitors.

I may as well get it all out...Those who run Horseshoe must think they are the smartest folks and everyone else is dumb.
For those of you who WORK THERE, be advised that many of us have PLAYED CARDS in LAS VEGAS with some of those very persons you call "props", when they were PROFESSIONAL POKER PLAYERS....and you know of whom I speak.

It may have seemed the player was complaining about a "check-raise", when he was actually complaining about a HORSESHOE EMPLOYEE BULLDOG, being "sicced" on him.

To heck with a rule change regarding check-raising, that's not the real issue...GET THOSE "ON DUTY" HORSESHOE DEALERS OUT OF ALL THE GAMES. [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]




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I was dealing in a 4-8 game the other day with 2 props. One of the props check-raised the flop and led out to the river with a set against a "nitty" player. Aftr the hand was over the nit player absolutly LIT into the prop for check-raising and told him he'd never tip him again when he dealt. The prop replied that he was only playing his hand and it was nothing personal. The prop literarly had to get up and walk from the table to avoid confrontation from the player. Now my view is the room needs props. Props help the players and the room start games and hold short games together. It's hard enough to get good props to play knowing they're giving up a "X" amount of money they could make dealing. Taking away the ability to check-raise from a prop is like taking away the pass rush in football. It's hard enough to beat a low limit game like 4-8. Check-raise is PART OF THE GAME. The nit player that got mad in my opinion was way out of line by getting upset with the prop. I personaly would never support a rule not allowing a prop to check-raise.

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[Randy_Refeld]

[ QUOTE ]
The complainer was probably angry about something I have observed in Horseshoe Tunica. "Prop"? A "prop" is used to fill games and to start games, in short handed scenarios.

THOSE PROFESSIONAL CARD PLAYERS WHO DOUBLE AS DEALERS in Horseshoe are NOT "props". Real props typically leave a game, where there is a long list of persons waiting to play.
The so-called props in Horseshoe KEEP THE SEAT TIED UP, sometimes for hours. I have personally seen a Horseshoe dealer, playing in a game, leave that game, where he HAD HIS BUDDY PLAY HIS MONEY, until the dealer did his time in the "box"...THEN RETURNED TO THE GAME (full of tourists) !!! That's not a "prop". That's a professional player making money, from the visitors.

I may as well get it all out...Those who run Horseshoe must think they are the smartest folks and everyone else is dumb.
For those of you who WORK THERE, be advised that many of us have PLAYED CARDS in LAS VEGAS with some of those very persons you call "props", when they were PROFESSIONAL POKER PLAYERS....and you know of whom I speak.

It may have seemed the player was complaining about a "check-raise", when he was actually complaining about a HORSESHOE EMPLOYEE BULLDOG, being "sicced" on him.

To heck with a rule change regarding check-raising, that's not the real issue...GET THOSE "ON DUTY" HORSESHOE DEALERS OUT OF ALL THE GAMES. [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]




[ QUOTE ]
I was dealing in a 4-8 game the other day with 2 props. One of the props check-raised the flop and led out to the river with a set against a "nitty" player. Aftr the hand was over the nit player absolutly LIT into the prop for check-raising and told him he'd never tip him again when he dealt. The prop replied that he was only playing his hand and it was nothing personal. The prop literarly had to get up and walk from the table to avoid confrontation from the player. Now my view is the room needs props. Props help the players and the room start games and hold short games together. It's hard enough to get good props to play knowing they're giving up a "X" amount of money they could make dealing. Taking away the ability to check-raise from a prop is like taking away the pass rush in football. It's hard enough to beat a low limit game like 4-8. Check-raise is PART OF THE GAME. The nit player that got mad in my opinion was way out of line by getting upset with the prop. I personaly would never support a rule not allowing a prop to check-raise.

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In many markets props (moreso with dealers) are allowed to stay in their seat once they get in it. They have started the game and there would be no game to play if they hadn't started it. In a dealer's case they gave up a lot of money they could have made in order to start a game, it would be unreasonable to now ask them to leave that seat.

As far as standard props it varies by room. I have worked in markets where they dont' even have to tell you who the props are and they typically remain in the game even when it is full. Other places the props have to get up when the game fills and some other places they have to get up when the list gets to a certain length.

[Chipr777]

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GET THOSE "ON DUTY" HORSESHOE DEALERS OUT OF ALL THE GAMES.


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I guess your not there when the game wouldn't have started without the "dealer" helping.

[Bulbarainey]

ive heard from a dealers at the Gardena clubs that they don't play (even for fun) at the same casinos they deal at for the same reasons.