Props and check-raising

Chipr777 · #1 10-13-2005, 06:43 PM

I was dealing in a 4-8 game the other day with 2 props. One of the props check-raised the flop and led out to the river with a set against a "nitty" player. Aftr the hand was over the nit player absolutly LIT into the prop for check-raising and told him he'd never tip him again when he dealt. The prop replied that he was only playing his hand and it was nothing personal. The prop literarly had to get up and walk from the table to avoid confrontation from the player. Now my view is the room needs props. Props help the players and the room start games and hold short games together. It's hard enough to get good props to play knowing they're giving up a "X" amount of money they could make dealing. Taking away the ability to check-raise from a prop is like taking away the pass rush in football. It's hard enough to beat a low limit game like 4-8. Check-raise is PART OF THE GAME. The nit player that got mad in my opinion was way out of line by getting upset with the prop. I personaly would never support a rule not allowing a prop to check-raise.

swede123 · #2 10-13-2005, 06:47 PM

Of course the nit is out of line. The person that would get fired up about this kind of crap is probably the same guy who wouldn't tip in the first place. Some people are dicks, in poker as well as other aspects of their life.

Swede

AngusThermopyle · #3 10-14-2005, 12:00 PM

A prop is a prop, and a dealer is a dealer.
A dealer who is playing while on the clock could be viewed as a prop, but most players would view him as a dealer.
Most players understand that a prop is just trying to make a living and should play however he thinks will bring him the most profit.
But when they see a dealer playing, they see someone who depends upon tips from players such as themselves for their living. Even though they know check-raising is part of the game, they feel that coming from someone who scowls at them when they forget to toss a $1 tip, it is a poor public relations move.
I know dealers who refuse to play in their own club for that reason.
You emphasized the fact that this was a "prop" in your post, while I think the guy's objection was that it was a dealer.

Randy_Refeld · #4 10-14-2005, 12:14 PM

[ QUOTE ]
A prop is a prop, and a dealer is a dealer.
A dealer who is playing while on the clock could be viewed as a prop, but most players would view him as a dealer.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is true. If you are in Mississippi they call a dealer playing on the clock a "prop" and this isn't really the case.

WDC · #5 10-14-2005, 01:13 PM

IThe NIT is way out of line. The guy is playing poker. There is a dealer that I refuse to tip based on how he acted while playing. Not based on his play but based on the fact he acted like a complete ass and made the game less enjoyable.

eh923 · #6 10-14-2005, 01:59 PM

Was there ever a question that a prop wouldn't/shouldn't be allowed to checkraise? That doesn't seem to be the case, just that a grumpy old fart didn't like that it happened. Also consider that you witnessed an isolated incident. There could've been plenty of history between the two, and this one incident just caused things to boil over.

And FWIW, I'd be happy if a room had a rule that props can't check-raise. First, I'm sure that won't affect the availability of props. Second, I'd never have to fear a checkraise from that player. I wouldn't lobby for such a rule to be in place, but if it was, I'd take advantage of it.

Chipr777 · #7 10-14-2005, 02:21 PM

[ QUOTE ]
wouldn't lobby for such a rule to be in place, but if it was, I'd take advantage of it.

[/ QUOTE ]
You just made my point on why there should never be a no check-raising rule for props. In many situations it puts a prop in a position to be taken advantage of.

#8 10-14-2005, 03:24 PM

My room has a rule (in the employee handbook not the house rules) that props may not check-raise. Of course its kind of irrelevant because as long as I have been here we have not had props.

It has always been my understanding that many rooms have this rule. Because even though you and I view Check-Raising as a part of the game, there are many people who view it as a dirty trick.

Patrick del Poker Grande · #9 10-14-2005, 03:52 PM

I'd have no problem with a rule against shills check-raising, but props should have the same rules as anybody else.

ckmo · #10 10-14-2005, 04:38 PM

bah...while we're at it maybe they should only be able to look at one card. Sounds pretty dumb to me. If you can't deal with being check raised, take your chips to the cashier and have a great day because poker isn't a game for you. just my opinion on it.