sixmax limit 1/2 o8 hand for discussion

[ClaytonN]

table was playing normal for a 1/2 sixmax game on PS.

Each street has options. Who likes what? I have little reads at the moment.

PokerStars Game #2619821678: Omaha Hi/Lo Limit ($1/$2) - 2005/09/20 - 12:45:52 (ET)
Table 'Umbriel' Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: Nick_Foxx ($20 in chips)
Seat 2: cnew27 ($48 in chips)
Seat 3: poway phil ($37 in chips)
Seat 4: cracker_al ($20 in chips)
Seat 5: pdspubguy ($67.50 in chips)
Seat 6: djkpsu ($26.75 in chips)
poway phil: posts small blind $0.50
cracker_al: posts big blind $1
Nick_Foxx: posts big blind $1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to cnew27 [Jc Qs Qc As]
pdspubguy: calls $1
djkpsu: raises $1 to $2
Nick_Foxx: folds
cnew27: calls $2
poway phil: calls $1.50
cracker_al: calls $1
pdspubguy: calls $1
*** FLOP *** [Kd Js Td]
poway phil: checks
cracker_al: checks
pdspubguy: checks
djkpsu: bets $1
cnew27: calls $1
poway phil: calls $1
cracker_al: folds
pdspubguy: folds
*** TURN *** [Kd Js Td] [Kh]
poway phil: bets $2
djkpsu: folds
cnew27: calls $2
*** RIVER *** [Kd Js Td Kh] [8h]
poway phil: bets $2
cnew27: calls $2

[Ribbo]

Fold preflop. No other discussion necessary about post flop play until you can let this one go to the preflop raiser.

[KneeCo]

I fold PF because I'm a noob who doesn't play without a draw to the low. But even if you have a wider range of starting hands, is this a powerful enough hand to call a raise with?

And I raise the flop 10 times out of 10, especially with the diamond draw there.

But again, I suck at poker.

[Brad F.]

[ QUOTE ]
table was playing normal for a 1/2 sixmax game on PS.

Each street has options. Who likes what? I have little reads at the moment.

PokerStars Game #2619821678: Omaha Hi/Lo Limit ($1/$2) - 2005/09/20 - 12:45:52 (ET)
Table 'Umbriel' Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: Nick_Foxx ($20 in chips)
Seat 2: cnew27 ($48 in chips)
Seat 3: poway phil ($37 in chips)
Seat 4: cracker_al ($20 in chips)
Seat 5: pdspubguy ($67.50 in chips)
Seat 6: djkpsu ($26.75 in chips)
poway phil: posts small blind $0.50
cracker_al: posts big blind $1
Nick_Foxx: posts big blind $1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to cnew27 [Jc Qs Qc As]
pdspubguy: calls $1
djkpsu: raises $1 to $2
Nick_Foxx: folds
cnew27: calls $2
poway phil: calls $1.50
cracker_al: calls $1
pdspubguy: calls $1
*** FLOP *** [Kd Js Td]
poway phil: checks
cracker_al: checks
pdspubguy: checks
djkpsu: bets $1
cnew27: calls $1
poway phil: calls $1
cracker_al: folds
pdspubguy: folds
*** TURN *** [Kd Js Td] [Kh]
poway phil: bets $2
djkpsu: folds
cnew27: calls $2
*** RIVER *** [Kd Js Td Kh] [8h]
poway phil: bets $2
cnew27: calls $2

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi Clayton.

I really like your line overall here. The first time I read through it I thought "Why isn't he raising with the nuts". But in all reality, I like the smoothcall with the flush draw out there. No way do you get one of the two to fold by raising the flop here (in your normal PS 1/2 6max game).

So in essence you'd just be raising with less than a 50% chance of winning the pot by the river. This is best case scenario here.

I'd wait until the turn to try and build the pot if you continue to hold the nuts. As played, I think calling down is fine, although since your villian just check/called on the flop and then led out on the turn I think you are beat.

Brad

<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre> pokenum -o8 jc qs qc as - ad 2d 8s 3c - kc jd 2c 3h -- kd js td
Omaha Hi/Low 8-or-better: 666 enumerated boards containing Js Kd Td
cards scoop HIwin HIlos HItie LOwin LOlos LOtie EV
As Qs Qc Jc 331 331 333 2 0 0 0 0.498
8s 3c Ad 2d 231 231 435 0 0 0 0 0.347
Kc 2c Jd 3h 102 102 562 2 0 0 0 0.155 </pre><hr />

[ClaytonN]

[ QUOTE ]
Fold preflop. No other discussion necessary about post flop play until you can let this one go to the preflop raiser.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd still like a comment or two on postflop, if you please.

I called because there was a poster in addition to the SB and the BB. Plus I had position.

[Ribbo]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Fold preflop. No other discussion necessary about post flop play until you can let this one go to the preflop raiser.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd still like a comment or two on postflop, if you please.

I called because there was a poster in addition to the SB and the BB. Plus I had position.

[/ QUOTE ]

If the guy was bluffing after the flop, you want him to keep bluffing. Just calling his bets was absolutely fine. You have little value raising the turn or river even though you *should* be ahead. What I mean by this is there are not many hands worse than yours that will call your raise, but there are enough better than yours who will. He could easily have A2 diamonds plus a king small and that's why he was betting. I'm not folding before a showdown.

[KneeCo]

[ QUOTE ]
So in essence you'd just be raising with less than a 50% chance of winning the pot by the river. This is best case scenario here.

[/ QUOTE ]

But he's the favorite now, and isn't the long term +EV move to make people pay for the chance to suckout on you?

[Brad F.]

[ QUOTE ]
I fold PF because I'm a noob who doesn't play without a draw to the low. But even if you have a wider range of starting hands, is this a powerful enough hand to call a raise with?

And I raise the flop 10 times out of 10, especially with the diamond draw there.

But again, I suck at poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd never fold this PF in a 6-max O/8 game.

Brad

[junkmail3]

[ QUOTE ]
I fold PF because I'm a noob who doesn't play without a draw to the low.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is equivalent to saying you don't play without a chance to scoop.

This hand has a chance to scoop.

[Brad F.]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So in essence you'd just be raising with less than a 50% chance of winning the pot by the river. This is best case scenario here.

[/ QUOTE ]

But he's the favorite now, and isn't the long term +EV move to make people pay for the chance to suckout on you?

[/ QUOTE ]

I really have no answer to this question whatsoever and it's really frustrating me.

Do we want to build the pot even though we'll only have the best hand on the river 40-50% of the time? Does the fact that there are 3 players still mean we should build the pot or no?

I find in Omaha I often lose more than I need to in multiway pot because I raise with the flop nuts which turns into about the 14th nut hand by the river.

Help?

Brad