should i move back to $25?

leehrat · #1 12-17-2005, 04:05 PM

recently i've moved up to $50 6max nl at party. my background is as a successful low-limit player, but i started out at $25 6 max nl and was beating it for 14 ptbb/100. however, i've been doing quite poorly at $50 and i think it's psychological. the betting amounts are just to big for me and i get scared. lags are pushing me around and i know they are but i can't call them down because the $ amounts scare me.

my question for you all is this: should i move back to $25 nl or just try to get over this problem at $50? or should i move back to limit? i do have some unmentionable at party too and i realize that limit poker would give me more unmentionable per month than nl. would i be able to sustain a 12-14 ptbb/100 winrate at the $25? i'm just a poor recent college grad working as a bartender pt and playing online poker so low variance is important to me. thanks!

4_2_it · #2 12-17-2005, 04:18 PM

Move back to the $25's until you your confidence and bankroll in shape. If you are uncomfortable with the betting amounts then you should scale back. If you multitable, try playing one $50 table to get more used to it while continuing to win from the $25s.

#3 12-17-2005, 05:11 PM

I have this problem, too. I'm a 20 year old poor college student just trying to make a living. So it's never comfortable when moving up stakes (I recently moved up from 25NL to 50NL as well), because even if my bankroll gets to $2000 (which it is), I still feel nervous betting $10, $20, $50 at one time, because I'm not used to having/seeing a lot of money. But now that I've practiced quite a bit at that level, I'm getting more used to it. For low variance I'd say play quite tight at first, try not to make any spectacular bluffs or questionable calls, and you might wanna try full ring.

I think the key is 1) make yourself think that the your poker bankroll is different from your actual spending money, so you don't have a problem risking "poker money" rather than "rent money", and 2) experience

You can move down to $25, and maybe throw in a $50 table in there as well...and gradually ease your way into it.

leehrat · #4 12-17-2005, 05:25 PM

thanks for all the responses guys..i'm thinking i'll move back to $25 for a little while.

about the winrate: i searched and found some other posts where people were saying that winning 1 buy-in per hour is reasonable if 4-5 tabling. this would seem to be in line with my previous 14bb/100 winrate which i did 4-tabling over
20k hands. is this realistic?

Cosimo · #5 12-17-2005, 05:48 PM

[ QUOTE ]
winning 1 buy-in per hour is reasonable if 4-5 tabling.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's 50 PTBB over 250-300 hands, or 17-20 PTBB/100h. I've seen some say that 10-12-14 is sustainable at $25, but I haven't seen anyone say 20 is doable except by those who are currently playing $100+. I think a 17+ PTBB/100h winrate is a lucky streak, cuz I haven't seen anyone mention it as sustainable.

tagtastic · #6 12-17-2005, 06:09 PM

It's all psychological, I've been there as well, especially moving up to the NL100 & 200 it starts to seem like an awful lot of money. I've learned to kinda divorce myself from the fact that it's money while playing - you really gotta view things as chips and view things in terms of multiples of BB and pot size instead of dollar amounts. Stuff like "he only bet half pot" not "wow that's a full day's pay at my old crappy job".

4_2_it · #7 12-17-2005, 06:39 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
winning 1 buy-in per hour is reasonable if 4-5 tabling.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's 50 PTBB over 250-300 hands, or 17-20 PTBB/100h. I've seen some say that 10-12-14 is sustainable at $25, but I haven't seen anyone say 20 is doable except by those who are currently playing $100+. I think a 17+ PTBB/100h winrate is a lucky streak, cuz I haven't seen anyone mention it as sustainable.

[/ QUOTE ]

20PTBB is not sustainable over a couple of hundred thousand hands. Anyone who hits a streak like that for 10-20 thousand hands moves up to the 50's.

I'll like to say one thing about bankroll management. Ideally, your bankroll should be separate from what you need to live. You should be able to go on super drunken monkey tilt and lose it all and not have it affect your lifestyle (your poker psyche would probably be destroyed, but that's another topic). You will never play optimally if you are not comfortable putting your buyin all in with an OESFD. That's how I gage whether I am ready to move up.

leehrat · #8 12-17-2005, 06:51 PM

[ QUOTE ]
20PTBB is not sustainable over a couple of hundred thousand hands. Anyone who hits a streak like that for 10-20 thousand hands moves up to the 50's.

I'll like to say one thing about bankroll management. Ideally, your bankroll should be separate from what you need to live. You should be able to go on super drunken monkey tilt and lose it all and not have it affect your lifestyle (your poker psyche would probably be destroyed, but that's another topic). You will never play optimally if you are not comfortable putting your buyin all in with an OESFD. That's how I gage whether I am ready to move up.

[/ QUOTE ]

great advice thanks 4. that's the thing, at $25 i feel comfortable doing this. at $50, no way! one more thing-do you feel a 14 ptbb/100 winrate is sustainable at $25? the players almost seem to want to get stacked here; there is definately a measurable difference between this level and $50.

Cosimo · #9 12-17-2005, 07:57 PM

[ QUOTE ]
do you feel a 14 ptbb/100 winrate is sustainable at $25? the players almost seem to want to get stacked here; there is definately a measurable difference between this level and $50.

[/ QUOTE ]

There was a thread about this recently.

Personally, I think 14 is sustainable at $25 by an extremely good player. This is based upon posts that others have made, ie my "feeling" from having read this forum for a bit.

Note "extremely good." 14 is doable over 10k hands as a lucky streak by a decent player. I'd hazard that you'd need great card-sense, excellent reads, and very smart play all-around to sustain 14 over 50k+ hands at $25, ie the kind of play that would justify moving up to $50.

4_2_it · #10 12-17-2005, 11:42 PM

I moved up from he $25's before I had PT, but I am pretty sure I was not a 14PTBB winner at that level. I was probably around 10PTBB.

Everything is relative. You are better off being a 5PTBB player at NL$200 (which translates to a 40PTBB NL $25 player). That's why everyone should try to get to at least NL $100 as soon as their bankroll permits. The players are not 4x better than the NL$25 players and your PTBB has to be over 25% of what your PTBB is at NL $25 for the same earn.

The only thing that should be holding back a solid winning NL $25 player from moving up is his bankroll.