Party 1/2 beginner help - Page 4

imported_leader · #31 12-09-2005, 05:17 PM

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Hey leader I have no problem being proved wrong with anything. But one line responses are stupid. If I'm wrong, say why, don't just be a cock. [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

I read the SB defend = PFR in several threads stickied up at the top, and it makes sense because you've already got money in the pot and you're trying to get more value out of the same set of hands you'd steal with yourself.

As for BB, I was starting conservative. If he defends = to his VPIP that's a good start, don't you think?

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So if my PFR is 60% it's profitable to defend my SB 60% of the time? Your logic doesn't make any sense. It's just like the logic in full ring that says PFR should be half of VPiP, which is also nonsense. VPiP has a range in which it is profitable to play. So does PFR, and FSBTS and FBBTS. The fact that you raise 19% and you're FSBTS is 81 is a coincidence. One is not dependent on the other. It is not profitable to call in the SB with any hand you would steal with. Why? Because you're OOP and BB is yet to act. The fact that you're getting a .25SB discount isn't enough.

And no if he defends he's BB = to his VPiP he's going to suck from the BB. Anything over 65% for FBBTS is horrid. And it should be even lower.

#32 12-09-2005, 06:10 PM

Leader-

Thanks for the clarification. I know I read the PFR is inverseley equal to SB defense somewhere but I can't find it now. In any case I think a strong argument can be made for 3-betting most your hands from the SB you'd be opening from on the button as it's likely to scare on the BB and give you better fold equity vs. the preflop raiser. My BB defense is hovering around 60 but it looks like I should lower it a bit, perhaps.

imported_leader · #33 12-09-2005, 06:30 PM

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In any case I think a strong argument can be made for 3-betting most your hands from the SB you'd be opening from on the button as it's likely to scare on the BB and give you better fold equity vs. the preflop raiser.

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Here are the hands I open have opened with on the BT at one point or another: AA-22, Axs, Ax, Kxs, K7o+, Q7s+, Q8o+, J8s+, J9o+, T8s+, T9o, 98s, 98o, 87s, 76s. Many of these would be absurd 3-bets from the SB. I would 3-bet an average BT raise with: 66+, A7s+, A8o+, KTs+, KJo+, QJs sometimes QTs and JTs

Cadence Lauren · #34 12-11-2005, 04:53 AM

I think this makes a lot of sense. (No, I'm not dodging any of the criticism offered above--the kind of stuff I've read in this thread is the reason why I started posting here.) I have opened on the button with AA-22, Axs, Ax, Kxs, K9o+, Q8s+, Q9o+, J8s+, J9o+, T8s+, T9o, 76s. I think that
a) stealing with hands significantly below these at $.5/$1 would be tough to prove profitable
b) my steal pct is greatly reduced because I get few chances to open from the button at $.5/$1.

Cadence Lauren · #35 12-11-2005, 04:54 AM

Thanks for all the help--this stuff is the reason I started posting here.

That list of opening BT hands makes sense to me. I'm off by a couple here and there (K9o+, Q9o+, T9o+), but these are very close to the hands I've opened with, too. I think my steal pct, aside from my admittedly absurdly small sample size, is due mostly to the fact that I very rarely get a chance to open on the button at $0.5/$1.