35s in BB

TheHammer24 · #1 10-31-2005, 01:53 AM

SB is a nitty aggro 15/10/3
Button is kind of a donk at 50/3/3 only after 20 hands

I've been playing decent and haven't done anything out of line yet. Are any of my plays thin? Do you play it any other way?

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is BB with 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, 1 fold, MP3 calls, 1 fold, Button calls, SB raises, Hero calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP3 calls, Button calls.

Flop: (14 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (7 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 bets, MP3 calls, Button calls, SB raises, Hero calls, UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, MP3 calls, Button calls.

Turn: (12 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB bets, Hero calls, MP1 calls, MP3 calls, Button raises, SB 3-bets, Hero caps, MP1 folds, MP3 folds, Button calls, SB calls.

River: (26 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, Button folds, SB 3-bets, Hero caps, SB calls.

Final Pot: 34 BB

Umm...guess what SB had [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Redd · #2 10-31-2005, 02:04 AM

I think the flop call is a little thin with the possibility of a 3-bet behind you, but IMO it's +EV. What about raising the turn the first time around though? It worked out well, but the pot is getting pretty big to start being fancy, and SB might 3-bet while we can't expect anyone to raise behind us.

TheHammer24 · #3 10-31-2005, 02:12 AM

[ QUOTE ]
What about raising the turn the first time around though? It worked out well, but the pot is getting pretty big to start being fancy, and SB might 3-bet while we can't expect anyone to raise behind us.

[/ QUOTE ]

When SB lead turn, I spent up until my last 3 seconds on the timer thinking whether to call or raise. I ultimately chose call because I think when people think for a while then raise in a big pot they obviously were debating slowplaying vs aggressiveness with a good hand.

Looking back, I think it's close, but there are a lot of people behind me, which makes calling more attractive. However, I'm pretty sure raising was the best play in the big pot.

My hand wasn't really that vulnerable though. Only really had to avoid board pairing, and no one was folding set/2-pair.

Nick C · #4 10-31-2005, 02:23 AM

I like a raise the first time around on the turn.

After SB's show of strength during the preflop/flop play, I don't know that we can count on a raise behind us. Also, while I don't really know what anyone has, I'd like to put pressure on, for instance, T9 if it happens to be out there and any 8.

MitchL · #5 10-31-2005, 02:29 AM

I would bet the flop, chances are sb is trying to thin the field or had already given up on the hand, I think building the pot in this spot would be good, you can trap many opponents and if sb raises than you are getting incredible pot and implied odds to hit your gutshot. I also like a raise on turn, because there are draws to beat you and it is a big pot, plus you can expect one or two coldcallers so this will make up for the people who dump and properly charges higher runner runner straight draws.

TheHammer24 · #6 10-31-2005, 02:37 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I would bet the flop, chances are sb is trying to thin the field or had already given up on the hand, I think building the pot in this spot would be good, you can trap many opponents and if sb raises than you are getting incredible pot and implied odds to hit your gutshot. I also like a raise on turn, because there are draws to beat you and it is a big pot, plus you can expect one or two coldcallers so this will make up for the people who dump and properly charges higher runner runner straight draws.

[/ QUOTE ]
With respect, betting the flop is terrible here.

I agree I should have raised the turn first time around. However, do any of you agree, that after I think about it for 15-20 seconds in a big pot, calling becomes more attractive, or this just a fabricated tell?

MitchL · #7 10-31-2005, 02:39 AM

if betting flop is bad than what is check calling two bets cold w/ 4 outer?

TheHammer24 · #8 10-31-2005, 02:43 AM

[ QUOTE ]
if betting flop is bad then what is calling two bets cold w/ 4 outer?

[/ QUOTE ]

Betting the flop could very well fold out hands. I do not have a hand that is going to play well HU in this pot. If I donk the flop, most players not closing the action, would fold hands that I want to call. Also, if I bet, this pot is large, and opponents might want to raise to clear up some outs, also knocking out people that I want to stay in.

If I had AX and a flush draw in a pot this large bettting would be much more appropriate as it would knock out opponents giving me additionaly way to win the pot. With 35 my only chance to win is the straight.

the flush draw also has an equity edge so long as 2 people call. Since the flush will improve about a third of the time. The straight draw will only improve 10%.

Finally, calling two cold is correct because it looks like several people are going to put two bets total on the flop to see the turn. The pot is large and I have adequate odds to call.

MitchL · #9 10-31-2005, 02:52 AM

Betting flop will fold noone that an expected bet from late position wont fold. Also I would expect that many will call even if it is raised and even if people get closed out you will gain as much if not more by being able to checkraise at least 2 people when you hit gutshot on the turn. You will be gaining those bets back and will have folded out or charged the marginal redraws to beat you. This is a plan that is used by many to accomplish many goals in one hand, You bet flop w/ gutshot trapping in dead money. If it gets raised you call and are now set to check raise turn which recovers what you lost by shutting out field on flop. Also betting flop manipulates the odds in your favor. Worst case scenario is that it is three bet back to you, but it is just like calling the original 2 bets cold, except w/ much better implied odds.

@bsolute_luck · #10 10-31-2005, 08:53 AM

nh. calling the flop is close, but getting 11:1 on a 4-outer (i'm not giving any outs for a 5-high BDFD) is break even EV so it's not spewing.

SB: duh...trip Jacks?

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