Is this a standard play?

TheHammer24 · #1 10-31-2005, 01:30 AM

This is my standard line in this situation (multiway against flop donker, i have two overcards)

Both players are unknown basically, but it's 6 handed full ring game that hasn't filled up yet. I have been raising a fair amount preflop but I have had good cards and am up 12 or so BB's in a short period of time.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is UTG with T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
Hero raises, 2 folds, Button calls, 1 fold, BB calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, Button folds, BB calls.

Turn: (5.25 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

River: (5.25 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets...

bambi · #2 10-31-2005, 01:47 AM

What hands to you put the BB on? Has to be a pair right? surely he is not donking with overs, and when you raise you are 2 small bets to win 8, will he ever fold a pair? cause i doubt it.

Give yourself 6 outs, you will improve to the best hand 25% of the time.

So you will win the hand every 1 in 4 times, so it seems like you have about neutral EV, but probably positive EV when including fold equity.

TheHammer24 · #3 10-31-2005, 12:49 PM

[ QUOTE ]
What hands to you put the BB on? Has to be a pair right? surely he is not donking with overs, and when you raise you are 2 small bets to win 8, will he ever fold a pair? cause i doubt it.

Give yourself 6 outs, you will improve to the best hand 25% of the time.

So you will win the hand every 1 in 4 times, so it seems like you have about neutral EV, but probably positive EV when including fold equity.

[/ QUOTE ]

This play assumes that player behind me folds and villian calls and checks the turn. It is your standard free card play with a week draw. It also assumes that if I hit my A or T I will win an additional BB, so I'm actually raising optimally wins me 6.25 BB for my raise

W. Deranged · #4 10-31-2005, 12:56 PM

I'm just going to say the same thing that I say whenever anyone posts a "raise for a free card hand":

If you are raising for a free card, realize that when your raise fails (and villain three-bets the flop and leads the turn) you have to pay 2.5 BB to see the river. That is 1 BB more than just calling down.

When your raise succeeds , you pay only 1 bb. That is .5 BB less than just calling down.

Result: A free-card raise is risky . You must succeed twice as often as you fail to make this play worthwhile. So don't try if you think it has less than a 2 in 3 chance of working.

That's basically all I have to say. If you are confident villian is donking with a mediocre hand and won't three-bet, and you are drawing to close to 6 pure outs most of the time, this is fine in an 8 SB pot. Do note, though, that against aggressive opponents the flop lead could indicate a lead-three-bet and so a raise is just playing into their hands.

SeaEagle · #5 10-31-2005, 01:00 PM

This is standard with such a draw heavy board. BB should be betting with a lot of draws here and your A-high may be in the lead.

On a drawless board, BB will always have a pair and raising without BD draws is borderline. You'll have to have an opponent who passive enough to almost always give you a free card.

TheHammer24 · #6 10-31-2005, 04:26 PM

I think this play largely depends also if the hand HU or 3+ way. HU peel and fold the turn UI