QJs in SB...

skoal2k4 · #1 06-11-2005, 03:06 PM

No reads... only have about 20 hands on BB... I'm looking for thoughts on that river bet. Of course, thoughts on all streets welcome too [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (7 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
2 folds, MP2 calls, 1 fold, Button calls, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (4 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets, BB raises, MP2 folds, Button folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (4 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, Hero calls.

River: (6 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, BB calls.

Final Pot: 8 BB

benkath1 · #2 06-11-2005, 03:16 PM

3-bet the flop.

Anybody consider raising preflop? I know preflop is gay and all, but is that too much against 2 limpers?

I think hands against checked bb's are tough. If you raised the flop you could keep control of the hand. If he caps the flop, then I would probably call down. If he has 2 pair, oh well.

Fantam · #3 06-11-2005, 03:35 PM

When BB raised you on the flop, it looks like he had either 2 pair or a set. Although its possible he had top pair with a weaker kicker.

Calling the flop raise and turn bet was fine, because you might have had the best hand and had outs to improve.

I think betting on the river when the 3rd flush card fell was ok, because BB probably made a crying call fearing you now had the flush and would not have raised. Also there was the slight chance that he might even have folded.

Also if you had checked the river, BB would probably have bet when he had a stronger hand anyway. So you may as well have bet just in case he had a weaker hand like JT, when checking would have lost you a bet.

If a [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] had not fallen on the river though, I think you probably would have been better just checking and calling, because otherwise BB would most likely have raised forcing you to fold or call another bet.

karitek · #4 06-11-2005, 05:14 PM

why did you bet out the river? i don't think that he's folding (he's shown too much agression so far) and you really don't want to be raised. i can't see what hands he's have that are worse than yours that he'd call with. check/call IMO.

DrunkHamster · #5 06-11-2005, 05:27 PM

If it was me, I would call the flop raise then donkbet the (non club) turn. I see the free card play so often at these limits, I almost always like to do this to punish any attempt, especially against a passive opponent who would rarely raise me. It usually costs the same as chack calling and stops BB getting a free card if he likes. What do you guys think to this?

Aaron W. · #6 06-11-2005, 05:45 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If it was me, I would call the flop raise then donkbet the (non club) turn. I see the free card play so often at these limits, I almost always like to do this to punish any attempt, especially against a passive opponent who would rarely raise me. It usually costs the same as chack calling and stops BB getting a free card if he likes. What do you guys think to this?

[/ QUOTE ]

Why not 3-bet the flop and lead the turn? Is there a reason donkbetting is better?

DrunkHamster · #7 06-11-2005, 05:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Why not 3-bet the flop and lead the turn? Is there a reason donkbetting is better?

[/ QUOTE ]

You are probably right. If we genuinely think this is a free card attempt, this is the best option. What would you do to a cap though?

Redd · #8 06-11-2005, 05:58 PM

I'd rather 3-bet the flop. The way it played out, I think the river bet is going to fold BB off of a losing hand more often than a winning one.

I also think that BB is more likely to bet a losing hand here becuase of his earlier position. He has the button now, but I don't think it's likely that he was trying to bluff you with nothing on the flop, since two players were left to act.

If I had noticed in those 20 hands that he spooks easily on scary boards, then I'd be inclined to bet however.

LuckyStrike · #9 06-11-2005, 05:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]
When BB raised you on the flop, it looks like he had either 2 pair or a set. Although its possible he had top pair with a weaker kicker.

[/ QUOTE ]

There's no way you can put him on two pair or a set after a measly flop raise unless you have a very specific read on him, which he did not. I'd 3-bet this flop, which would make the decisions later on much different.

skoal2k4 · #10 06-11-2005, 06:10 PM

i took a WA/WB type of line after the flop raise... that's why the bet on the river