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  #1  
Old 12-14-2005, 05:31 AM
J_V J_V is offline
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Default 150-300 PAYOFF

You open in a tough game against tight blinds in the CO with Ks 3s. Only the BB calls.

Flop comes Qs Qc 5s. Checked to you, you bet and are checkraised. You quickly 3 bet and get are called.

Turn is a 2c. Check Check.

River 3d. BB bets, you call.

Comments?
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  #2  
Old 12-14-2005, 05:35 AM
gonores gonores is offline
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Default Re: 150-300 PAYOFF

You gots to pay off here. Tight/weakish blinds are very fond of playing big aces like this.
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  #3  
Old 12-14-2005, 05:47 AM
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Default Re: 150-300 PAYOFF

I would call here 100% of the time. Youre raising preflop on a steal, the BB knows this. The flop is a paired board, and people love to make plays on paired boards, even tight players, especially against a stealers preflop range. There is still a decent chance the villain has complete air right now and it is also possibe that he is on a flush draw just like you are. Youre probably thinking how can the villain have nothing if he called your flop 3 bet. The answer is many people in this situation will still pay one small bet to see if they can pair up on the turn. When you check the turn you are basically inviting him to bluff you on the river so your hand is too strong to consider folding.


On another subject, I like your flop play but I dont like your turn check, becuz theres a decent chance your king high might still be the best hand, and it would be best if you bet the turn and force the villain to either correctly fold his 6 outer or incorrectly call. If the villain has a better hand than you, you still have outs anyways. And if the villain has a queen and he checkraises you on the turn, well thats annoying but thats poker, paying a little extra to draw to your hand sometimes is still worth it when you consider the times you win the pot with a turn bet, or you are betting the best hand on the turn.

If you bet the turn and the villain calls, and you miss the river, I would not bet, I would just show down my king high and see if its good since at this point the villain will never fold a pair or an ace, if he has a better king good for him. You can still beat any broken flush draw that didnt pair up.
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  #4  
Old 12-14-2005, 06:25 AM
Dantes Dantes is offline
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Default Re: 150-300 PAYOFF

[ QUOTE ]
You gots to pay off here. Tight/weakish blinds are very fond of playing aces like this.

[/ QUOTE ]
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  #5  
Old 12-14-2005, 06:26 AM
Dantes Dantes is offline
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Default Re: 150-300 PAYOFF

[ QUOTE ]
On another subject, I like your flop play but I dont like your turn check, becuz theres a decent chance your king high might still be the best hand, and it would be best if you bet the turn and force the villain to incorrectly fold his ace high hand that's beating you.

[/ QUOTE ]
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  #6  
Old 12-14-2005, 10:59 AM
stoxtrader stoxtrader is offline
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Default Re: 150-300 PAYOFF

I think flat calling the flop c/r and raising the turn is also a viable play.

your line is good as well.
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  #7  
Old 12-14-2005, 11:54 AM
Robb Robb is offline
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Default Re: 150-300 PAYOFF

[ QUOTE ]
You open in a tough game against tight blinds in the CO with Ks 3s. Only the BB calls.

Flop comes Qs Qc 5s. Checked to you, you bet and are checkraised. You quickly 3 bet and get are called.

Turn is a 2c. Check Check.

River 3d. BB bets, you call.

Comments?

[/ QUOTE ]
I would have called the river too as BB has to think that a decent/big ace has a value bet.

I found your flop and turn play awkward at first but after thinking about it I'm guessing you 3 bet the flop hoping to put no more money in the hand i.e. if BB bet turn or river you would know you were beat and would fold.
_______________

Ok I'm thought about it a little more and I'm still not sure of your plan. I understand you have to defend against the re-steal flop check-raise or else blinds will run over you.....but if you thought the BB had air why not bet the turn? He has a hard time calling with undercards. And if you thought he probably had an ace or a pair....well I don't know I guess I would need more info on BB to understand the flop 3 bet. Care to elaborate?
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  #8  
Old 12-14-2005, 12:22 PM
mmcd mmcd is offline
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Default Re: 150-300 PAYOFF

[ QUOTE ]


I found your flop and turn play awkward at first but after thinking about it I'm guessing you 3 bet the flop hoping to put no more money in the hand i.e. if BB bet turn or river you would know you were beat and would fold.
_______________

Ok I'm thought about it a little more and I'm still not sure of your plan. I understand you have to defend against the re-steal flop check-raise or else blinds will run over you.....but if you thought the BB had air why not bet the turn? He has a hard time calling with undercards. And if you thought he probably had an ace or a pair....well I don't know I guess I would need more info on BB to understand the flop 3 bet. Care to elaborate?

[/ QUOTE ]

Flush draw.
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  #9  
Old 12-14-2005, 12:37 PM
barry.egan barry.egan is offline
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Default Re: 150-300 PAYOFF

[ QUOTE ]
but if you thought the BB had air why not bet the turn? He has a hard time calling with undercards. And if you thought he probably had an ace or a pair....well I don't know I guess I would need more info on BB to understand the flop 3 bet. Care to elaborate?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not to answer for him, but if I think he has air I'm calling the the flop c/r and popping the turn. If I put him on on an ace or 5 then I'd much rather 3-bet the flop and check behind on the turn to take my shot at 3-15 outs.

Seems pretty standard blind steal/draw play against many opponents. If he has air trap him for the extra .5bb and get the free river when we know we can't show down without a good one.
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  #10  
Old 12-14-2005, 01:08 PM
Robb Robb is offline
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Default Re: 150-300 PAYOFF

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


I found your flop and turn play awkward at first but after thinking about it I'm guessing you 3 bet the flop hoping to put no more money in the hand i.e. if BB bet turn or river you would know you were beat and would fold.
_______________

Ok I'm thought about it a little more and I'm still not sure of your plan. I understand you have to defend against the re-steal flop check-raise or else blinds will run over you.....but if you thought the BB had air why not bet the turn? He has a hard time calling with undercards. And if you thought he probably had an ace or a pair....well I don't know I guess I would need more info on BB to understand the flop 3 bet. Care to elaborate?

[/ QUOTE ]

Flush draw.

[/ QUOTE ]
Funny how a good player knows when another player has missed something. I didn't see the flush draw - thanks.
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