Optimizing EV, Room Selection, Bonuses, Rakeback

TheHammer24 · #1 10-23-2005, 02:07 AM

To start, I am a 2.4BB/100 winner at Party 2/4 over about 20k hands. I dipped my foot in 3/6 and got run over (pretty unlucky) and I have been pretty averse to trying it again. I credit a substantial portion of my success at the limit to table selection. I do this by data mining 10 tables before I start a session, then seeking out the best table and seat position, which, in my opinion, greatly increases EV.

However, I concluded that no rakeback, no bonus, even with a good win rate, was not my optimal EV. So I set up a 30% rb account at Bet on Bet (poker room) and recevied a 200 dollar bonus (clears at about 5 dollars per hour per table. I four table so 20 Dollars an hour). Now I only have played 1 session, but so far I do not like it. I cannot decide which seat is the best. I cannot datamine. The players are generally better and there are less tables to choose from. I played for about an hour and lost 17 BB (Variance plays a part).

I certainly feel more comfortable at Party, but is it possible that my overall EV would be higher at Party w.o all the perks PokerRoom offers?

2+2 wannabe · #2 10-23-2005, 05:13 AM

pokerroom has some good bonuses on its skins

imo, bonuses on PR + small winnings on PR > party winnings alone

Baulucky · #3 10-23-2005, 07:03 AM

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I certainly feel more comfortable at Party

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ENJOY!.

TemetNosce · #4 10-23-2005, 07:58 AM

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I certainly feel more comfortable at Party, but is it possible that my overall EV would be higher at Party w.o all the perks PokerRoom offers?

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If you are more comfortable playing at Party, then that's where you should play. If you are not comfortable playing at a given site, then you probably are not going to play your best poker. That's -EV.

It's hard to say whether it's possible that your overall EV is higher at Party with no bonus/RB versus your at EV at Bet on Bet with perks. Let's look at this over a long time period and ignore the $200 bonus for now. Over a long time period of many dealt hands, the $200 bonus will be negligible to the discussion.

At $2/4, your 30% RB is equivalent roughly to $0.034 per dealt hand. This 30% RB would net you about $8.16 an hour assuming that you were 4-tabling and were dealt 240 hands in an hour. That's worth about 0.85 BB/100. Adding in periodic reloads would increase that since bonuses are generally worth more than RB. Instead of 0.85 BB/100, maybe it's around 1.00 BB/100 or even higher. How much more, I'm just not sure.

If you think that playing at Party with no perks over a long time period would give you a winrate more than 0.85 BB/100 (or a little higher if adding periodic reloads) than it would at Bet on Bet with no perks, then you are better off playing at Party.

I have been pondering this kind of stuff lately and wonder if anyone has ever done a study on this playing at Party with no perks versus playing at another site with perks. If considering just the actual play without perks, playing at Party over the long term should give you a higher winrate than any other site because of the Party fish factor. It's just hard to say if the Party fish factor is better than perks at another site. I would be inclined to think it's not a 1.00 BB/100 difference, but again I just don't know.

IggyWH · #5 10-23-2005, 11:41 AM

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I have been pondering this kind of stuff lately and wonder if anyone has ever done a study on this playing at Party with no perks versus playing at another site with perks. If considering just the actual play without perks, playing at Party over the long term should give you a higher winrate than any other site because of the Party fish factor. It's just hard to say if the Party fish factor is better than perks at another site. I would be inclined to think it's not a 1.00 BB/100 difference, but again I just don't know.

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I did a little bit comparing my normal Party play to my play on UB trying to clear some bonus money.

It might just be that I know how to find the fish well on Party, but my winrate is a lot better on Party than it is when I play on UB, and that's including UB bonus. I don't have RB on UB though but even if I did, I still don't think it would be close.

TheHammer24 · #6 10-23-2005, 01:41 PM

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I have been pondering this kind of stuff lately and wonder if anyone has ever done a study on this playing at Party with no perks versus playing at another site with perks. If considering just the actual play without perks, playing at Party over the long term should give you a higher winrate than any other site because of the Party fish factor. It's just hard to say if the Party fish factor is better than perks at another site. I would be inclined to think it's not a 1.00 BB/100 difference, but again I just don't know.

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I did a little bit comparing my normal Party play to my play on UB trying to clear some bonus money.

It might just be that I know how to find the fish well on Party, but my winrate is a lot better on Party than it is when I play on UB, and that's including UB bonus. I don't have RB on UB though but even if I did, I still don't think it would be close.

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Was it you who compared rake on PokerRoom to Party? Or was it Ted Dibase Avatar? I can't find it/

#7 10-23-2005, 03:13 PM

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It might just be that I know how to find the fish well on Party, but my winrate is a lot better on Party than it is when I play on UB, and that's including UB bonus. I don't have RB on UB though but even if I did, I still don't think it would be close.

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Was it you who compared rake on PokerRoom to Party? Or was it Ted Dibase Avatar? I can't find it/

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Try Uglyowl - he compared the rooms a while back. He has the Ted Dibase Avatar...

WordWhiz · #8 10-23-2005, 04:08 PM

I have a half completed article that sort of addresses this topic. It compares bonuses, rakeback, and table fishiness to determine what matters most at various limits. At low limits, sign up and reload bonuses are worth way more than all but the fishiest of tables. At ultra high limits--like 50/100, one slightly inferior player who increases your win rate by even .25BB/100 (for $25/100) is worth way more than all the rakeback and bonuses in the world. A true fish is worth his weight in gold.

2/4 was about the triple point--where bonuses, rakeback, and table fishiness all converged to increase your $ by about the same amount. If you think the fish factor on party is a big deal, and you evidently do, I'd recommend still playing there even w/o rakeback or bonuses.

TheHammer24 · #9 10-23-2005, 07:05 PM

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I have a half completed article that sort of addresses this topic. It compares bonuses, rakeback, and table fishiness to determine what matters most at various limits. At low limits, sign up and reload bonuses are worth way more than all but the fishiest of tables. At ultra high limits--like 50/100, one slightly inferior player who increases your win rate by even .25BB/100 (for $25/100) is worth way more than all the rakeback and bonuses in the world. A true fish is worth his weight in gold.

2/4 was about the triple point--where bonuses, rakeback, and table fishiness all converged to increase your $ by about the same amount. If you think the fish factor on party is a big deal, and you evidently do, I'd recommend still playing there even w/o rakeback or bonuses.

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That is a good article topic