Hmm River Decision... - Page 3

shadow29 · #21 08-16-2005, 02:22 AM

[ QUOTE ]
just a note to n00bs:

when you have a 2 card flush, i NEVER put someone else on a flush draw. It's just too rare, and you'll win more when they DONT than you'll lose the few times that they DO. That said, 3 bet this mofo. For each time you lose to a higher you'll win with a flush much more.

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No.

Don't make broad, sweeping generalizations like this one. Certainly, having flush over flush is rare, but you should constantly be evaluating what kinds of hands your opponent has and how his actions and reactions further narrow the scope of his hand range.

Furthermore, player types have every thing to do with this analysis. If the most loose passive player comes completely alive on a [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] board and doesn't slow down on the turn, then you have to start thinking about getting to showdown and/or collecting the equity that you make by raising him by going for overcalls.

Saying, "Never put your opponent on a higher flush" is a relative (and getting dangerously close to being), "Fit or fold".

Later.

Aaron W. · #22 08-16-2005, 02:40 AM

[ QUOTE ]
just a note to n00bs:

when you have a 2 card flush, i NEVER put someone else on a flush draw. It's just too rare, and you'll win more when they DONT than you'll lose the few times that they DO. That said, 3 bet this mofo. For each time you lose to a higher you'll win with a flush much more.

[/ QUOTE ]

You don't really mean this. When you have a 2 card flush (your two cards complete a flopped flush), you should NEVER assume that somebody else has a two card flush without having extra (very solid) information on them. Putting someone on a flush draw (one heart) is a very reasonable thing to do.

Vote4Pedro · #23 08-16-2005, 11:50 AM

FLOP : The majority of the time, I find this to be an easy/standard bet/3bet situation. I think I got too fancy and assumed a few things would happen: 1)Button betting flop 2)SB playing back at him (BTW, 1+2 seemed ridiculously probable given the action from previous hands). Is that a bad approach regardless?

TURN : Standard. When button checked the flop, I "ruled" out the possibility of him having something containing the A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] or K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], so I found his CC to be very odd.

RIVER : Button wakes up when an irrelavent 5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] drops and SB calls 2. I ended up 3betting, Button capped and SB dropped out. I call and sure enough he has AK [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. My big question regarded the river play. A river bluff-raise vs two opponents seemed highly unlikely. I 3bet largely because of the presence of SB. In general, should I bet 3betting situations like these ONLY if I'm capable of folding to a cap?

Saint_D · #24 08-16-2005, 02:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
just a note to n00bs:

when you have a 2 card flush, i NEVER put someone else on a flush draw. It's just too rare, and you'll win more when they DONT than you'll lose the few times that they DO. That said, 3 bet this mofo. For each time you lose to a higher you'll win with a flush much more.

[/ QUOTE ]

This has not been my experience. My low flushes get run over with wild abandon. I am willing to chalk this up to sample size. But if you think your flush is beat, you might be right. Proceed with caution.

Though, in this hand, I would expect to see your steamer with a strait on the river. Jam the pot.

-D

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Well, Ive been busy w/ MCAT studying but once that is over this week ill make a search for a post i had a few months prior when i asked the same question- basically how often is my flush beat by another flush. the conclusion was not often enough to prevent you from jamming the pot - unles there is a straight flush possibility or a paired board (boat maybe).

I think it's just sample size. Or, are you playing below .50/1?

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22K hands at .5/1 and 1/2. Is there a reasonably easy way to dig these hands out of PT?

I might just be remembering the times it happens and forgeting the times my low flush walks. But honestly, I can't recall a single flush with a high card lower than a J working for me. I lost a giant pot last night when the 4th flush card hit the river and the AA I was up against with my 89s ended up with the flush. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

-D

Saint_D · #25 08-17-2005, 01:43 AM

Based on the fact that we shouldn't fear an overflush, did I play this correctly?

edit: I was 85% certian the button would bet.

Party Poker 1.00/2.00 Hold'em (9 handed) link

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 2 folds, Hero calls, CO checks, Button calls, 1 folds, BB checks.

Flop: (5.50 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero checks, CO checks, Button bets, BB folds, UTG calls, Hero raises, CO folds, Button calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (5.75 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets, Button raises, UTG calls, Hero 3-bets, Button caps, UTG folds, Hero calls.

River: (15.75 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 17.75 BB.

Shillx · #26 08-17-2005, 01:48 AM

Dude bet the flop! Your hand can't withstand a checkthough.

Brad

Saint_D · #27 08-17-2005, 02:11 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Dude bet the flop! Your hand can't withstand a checkthough.

Brad

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I was thinking that it couldn't withstand anything less than a checkraise. The bettor on the flop could pretty much be trusted to bet.

What would I do if I had bet it and gotten 2 or 3 callers? Thats what I felt would happen. Since I didn't have a plan for that and felt I couldn't fold, I went for the C/R. These low flopped flushes make me very nervous.

Putting aside the mistake on the C/R, how bad is the rest?

-D