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  #1  
Old 11-28-2005, 10:08 PM
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Default 88 check/raise river?

3/6 Party

I am dealt 88 in MP and raise. I get 3-bet by LP. Headsup to the flop.

Kd 8d 7
I check, LP bets, I call.

3
I check, LP checks.

A
I check? Bet?
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  #2  
Old 11-28-2005, 10:16 PM
michaelp michaelp is offline
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Default Re: 88 check/raise river?

Don't you want to make money on this hand?

Bet the flop, turn, and river.

This may produce different action, which would alter this at the river.
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  #3  
Old 11-28-2005, 11:12 PM
lightw1thoutheat lightw1thoutheat is offline
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Default Re: 88 check/raise river?

c/r the flop and hope he has ak or aa so that you can 3 bet.
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  #4  
Old 11-29-2005, 04:45 AM
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Default Re: 88 check/raise river?

[ QUOTE ]
Don't you want to make money on this hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes...which is why I wanted to wait for the turn to check/raise. Seeing how he didn't bet the turn, I was going to bet the river. I felt like that A might've hit him so I went for a check/raise.
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  #5  
Old 11-29-2005, 04:48 AM
Jake (The Snake) Jake (The Snake) is offline
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Default Re: 88 check/raise river?

c/ring the flop or c/ring the turn will end up netting you about the same number of bets when villain has nothing. except sometimes he will check through the turn like he did and you are screwed.

when villain has a great hand like AK or AA though, like someone else mentioned, he will probably want to go to war, and then you make lots of money, and money is good.
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  #6  
Old 11-29-2005, 05:00 AM
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Default Re: 88 check/raise river?

So nobody likes check/raising the turn with a set? Everyone check/raises the flop?

Given my line so far, should I bet river or c/r?
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  #7  
Old 11-29-2005, 05:16 AM
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Default Re: 88 check/raise river?

I don't think playing for the turn check-raise is all that bad. Assuming villain isn't overly passive, I think it's rather safe to assume he'll bet the turn with his likely range (AK, and the big pocket pairs). However, I think they're a few key problem with this line, including:

1. Villain may fold a pocket pair, like TT or JJ, to the turn check-raise.

2. The turn being checked behind by hands like JJ, QQ is a very real possibility.

3. A 3rd [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] may fall, which may encourage villain to fold to a check-raise, or go passive with a hand like AK

4. You miss out on value on the flop when villain holds AK.

5. A turn check-raise is generally very transparent, and will often alert the better/thinking players.

In this situation, I like leading the flop and taking it from there. If called, I'd continue to lead both the turn and river. When raised on the flop, I'd probably opt to check-raise the turn. I think when we're raised on the flop villain will often want to see a showdown, and thus payoff a turn check-raise. 3-betting the flop also has its merits, and is undoubtedly the better line if villain will cap with AK.

Obviously, the best line here is very dependent on the opponent, and a read would come in very handy. With that being said, I'm leading the flop here and hoping villain is overaggressive with an underpair or has spiked TPTK, or better yet has AA.
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  #8  
Old 11-29-2005, 05:21 AM
Jake (The Snake) Jake (The Snake) is offline
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Default Re: 88 check/raise river?

[ QUOTE ]
Given my line so far, should I bet river or c/r?

[/ QUOTE ]

Defenetely bet. Hopefully villain will have hit the ace and raise so you can 3-bet. Villain already told you by checking the turn that his hand probably isn't spectacular, so he might check the river too, which would be a disaster. If he hit the ace, you have a chance to get 3 bets in by betting but virtually no chance of getting 4 bets by c/r ing.
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  #9  
Old 11-29-2005, 05:25 AM
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Default Re: 88 check/raise river?

With the way the hand played out, I'd lead the river. Given the weakness you've shown throughout, it's likely a pair of As will raise the river and you'll be able to 3-bet it. Since the A is another scare card for hands like JJ & QQ, it's also likely he'll check behind when holding these hands. Converesely villain will often pay off a river bet with these holdings.
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  #10  
Old 11-29-2005, 05:31 AM
SNOWBALL138 SNOWBALL138 is offline
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Default Re: 88 check/raise river?

I almost always either bet the flop or checkraise the flop. Also, bet the river. I don't think his hand range (not his PF 3 betting hand range, but his checking turn hand range) is betting and calling a raise even half as much as he is just calling a bet.

No reads?
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