How to play AK in $5/$10 SNG's?

[Damian UK]

I can't figure out how to play AK at low buy in tables, especially at level's 1 and 2.

I started off raising the standard 4XBB and end up with 5 callers - miss the flop and make a continuation bet for half or 2/3rds pot and get 3 callers etc No help turn I then fold to a decent bet and callers.

So I then up my raising to 8-10 X BB and still get 3 callers generally - yesterday did this and a raggedy flop of 4 7 9 rainbow has two all ins (I fold) one had Q4 suited and the other Q9 (sigh)

So after that debacle I decided to push all in (as I do with Aces and Kings) to see what happens - so far had 3 AK hands early doors and only one caller each time -
beat AJ [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
lost to QJ suited (flush - I had the Ace of the suit)
and then lost to 10 6 suited [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img], I had the same suit [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] - he hit a FH [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

So do I limp? - well have just busted AK with 55 - A 5 x flop, I bet, he raised I reraised he called - so limping doesn't seem to help either!

So whats the concensus for pushing All In? is there any +ev, or should I just limp? or just raise 20XBB at levels 1 and 2 (which basically is about 40% of my stack anyway? so this means pushing the flop?).

I don't like limping, AK is a good hand and needs pumping, but how much?

Thanks

Damian

[tigerite]

Don't make a continuation bet with 4 or 5 callers. Simple really. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

8-10bb is ridiculous. Just bet to 3bb if no limpers, otherwise to 3bb + 1xlimper, or if you're really brave 2xlimper. It's better to keep the pot small with AK though early levels.

[wiggs73]

I think you're far-overanylzing this, based on a few hands worth of play.

A standard raise would be fine, 3-5x BB. There's no need for any more. It sounds like your main problem is continuing with the hand after the flop misses you. Continuation bets are good to make against one opponent. If the flop misses you, chances are it missed him as well, so nothing wrong with leading out. Continuation bets are not good against 5 opponents because it is too likely that the flop hit someone. There's really nothing wrong with check-folding against a handful of opponents, especially if you're in early position. And this is why you want to raise a reasonable amount... so you won't be so attached to the hand when the flop comes. Don't get carried away making huge raises. Remember that AK does need improvement to really be good.

[Wes ManTooth]

[ QUOTE ]
So I then up my raising to 8-10 X BB and still get 3 callers generally - yesterday did this and a raggedy flop of 4 7 9 rainbow has two all ins (I fold) one had Q4 suited and the other Q9 (sigh)

So after that debacle I decided to push all in (as I do with Aces and Kings) to see what happens - so far had 3 AK hands early doors and only one caller each time -
beat AJ [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
lost to QJ suited (flush - I had the Ace of the suit)
and then lost to 10 6 suited [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img], I had the same suit [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] - he hit a FH [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]


[/ QUOTE ]

I have not played $10 sngs on party for a while, and $5 sngs in a real long time. But calls like the ones you mention here I have rarely seen happening in $10 ones. Maybe its just happens in the $5sngs, maybe you should just play the $10 sngs.

Most of the time it is good to raise with AK preflop, but this depends on your table position, number of players left, level, stack size and other factors (if there is a raiser or reraiser before you).

[tigerite]

Heh, I've seen FAR worse at the $10s. Try a big stack calling my all in (for 10bb) on the bubble - he had been a total luckbox throughout, and the blinds were 25/50 4-handed, it was that stupid - with 23o.

[Damian UK]

Thanks - I see the point about a continuation bet against 5 opponents [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

Which brings me back to another of my questions, why raise 3-5 X BB when I know I will get 5 or so callers ('only' 120 chips or so from a stack of 1500) miss the flop and then check/fold. Would I be better not raising at all and just limp and see what happens are my odds so much worse against 7 players than 5? (and I would have saved 5BB). Or better yet just push all in and only get one caller? I am in better or worse shape then?

This is the bit that the maths help but I can't figure out (I am not a stat man!!) in the long run is it better to raise 5XBB with 5 callers or limp against 7, or just push against 1 - given the chance of an A or K flopping or not (any stats fans out there?). I realise that AK suited is better but does it make a significant difference?

I appreciate its a small number of hands, but this has been happening for months and yesterday decided to try the 'push all in and see what happens' test.

Thanks for the replies

Damian

[tigerite]

Because you don't always miss the flop

[Damian UK]

To clarify - I play on Vic Chandlers and Sporting Odds (don't know if they are skins or not)

Starting chips for both are 1500 - with 10 min levels (unless speed/turbo).

All three were $10 tables.

I would say I am a decent amateur - have played for a year, seriously for about 4 months or so when I found this forum and started to read some books, so I have a fair grasp of position and raise/re-raise and am willing to laydown my AK to raise re-raise ALL in and another call etc before it gets to me at levels 1-3 (dependant on my stack).

Its just what to do when I am entering a pot I am confused with [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Thanks

Damian

[Damian UK]

Thanks tigerite - so I should raise because when I do hit it will be worth it and check fold if I miss against multiple opponenets.

Cheers

Damian

[wiggs73]

Well you want to raise to get value when the flop does hit you. I like a raise more than a push because I don't think you're going to get enough calls from hands you have dominated. You're making it too easy for hands like AQ, AJ, and AT to fold when you push all-in and these are the hands that you want to be playing against. I can't know for sure, but I'd think that the bulk of the calls you get from open-pushing are going to come from pocket pairs and if this is the case, then it's obviously a -EV move.

The t1500 starting stacks make it all the more reasonable to open with a small raise too. You have PLENTY of time to play poker. Don't worry so much about winning huge pots early, just pick up the ones that you can and try to take chips off people playing weaker aces when the flop hits both of you.