56o vs KK and a set

Andrew Fletcher · #1 12-10-2005, 12:47 AM

We know that a lot of players overvalue their hands. But what about players who undervalue their big hands? Let's see how a LAG style can beat weak players....

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

UTG ($10.15)
UTG+1 ($4.85)
MP1 ($2.90)
MP2 ($23.25)
MP3 ($6.05)
CO ($14)
Hero ($10.75)
SB ($17.75)
BB ($0.80)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
2 folds, MP1 raises to $0.3, 1 fold, MP3 calls $0.30, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.30, 2 folds.

Flop: ($1.05) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP1 checks, MP3 checks, Hero bets $0.75, MP1 folds, MP3 calls $0.75.

That flop bet will often win the hand outright and if it doesn't i've got outs.

Turn: ($2.55) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP3 checks, Hero checks.

When the lord givith a free card, you take the free card. His flop call tells me he has something.

River: ($2.55) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP3 checks, Hero bets $1.25, MP3 calls $1.25.

Final Pot: $5.05

The key, in my mind, to a LAG style is that it allows you to take advantage of all kinds of mistakes that a ABC TAG style does not. As I start to move up in limits, I think my learning curve will be much less steep.

wdeadwyler · #2 12-10-2005, 12:51 AM

Dude this is bad. Bet more on the river. Dont call preflop. Lags dont call preflop and check turns, they raise and bet.

Wayfare · #3 12-10-2005, 12:55 AM

Man did you play this fishy.

Isura · #4 12-10-2005, 12:55 AM

Fold preflop. Hands like 87o do well in position in an unraised pot, because your hand is easy to define and you know exactly where you stand. Against a preflop raiser in a big pot though, this hand is hell to play. Even if you hit 2 pair, you might not be ahead. And the preflop raiser isn't going to normally let you draw cheaply. Pot or overbet the river.

PoBoy321 · #5 12-10-2005, 12:56 AM

Meh, I really don't like it. Fold pre-flop, it's very hard to make a hand with 78o. I don't hate the rest of your line, but I'd hardly call it LAG.

scrapperdog · #6 12-10-2005, 12:56 AM

Waxie you are attempting to play LAG in full ring now? This has disaster written all over it.

Wayfare · #7 12-10-2005, 12:57 AM

Also this isn't lag. LAG won't work well in low stakes because:

1: People don't fold and....
2: They don't fold.

There is very little shania here at these stakes. People dont care about what you have, they aren't thinking that deeply.

scrapperdog · #8 12-10-2005, 01:07 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Also this isn't lag. LAG won't work well in low stakes

[/ QUOTE ]

We all know this is not LAG. LAGS dont CC on the button, and probably most of them fold this hand (if it was suited they probably re-raise?). Good lags constantly play the player as well as position, Wax did not mention any reads on the player so .....

A good LAG can make money at any stakes in 6 max games. Full ring is harder. Most LAGS are not good.

Edit.. I am hoping a good LAG can step in here and correct any mistakes I made here.

Andrew Fletcher · #9 12-10-2005, 01:56 AM

Alright it's late and I am not feeling particularly well, but I think you guys are missing the point I am trying to make.

The idea that LAGs just love to bet and bully people is sort of silly. That's not going to produce a sucessful winrate at any level, but particularly not at 10NL. In fact, it's pure suicide at 10NL to try and bluff people off of better hands. These guys aren't folding. What I see a lot of at these stakes are players misplaying their strong hands as well as draws and generally making bets that have no logical purpose.

What are things that myself and the traditional TAG players agree on? I assume the following:

-Players at 25NL and lower have a wide hand range. People will often call pre-flop raises and even three-bets with A7o, QJ, 22-99 and other easily dominated hands.
-Players at 25NL and lower often misplay their big hands. This includes cold calling with AA-JJ and slow playing strong hands on draw-heavy flops in multiway pots.
-Players at 25NL and lower tend to be overly willing to build large pots in less than optional situations.

Since fold equity is relatively low at 25NL and lower, the relative value of big cards (like AKo) goes down. Therefore, good players are not extracting as much value as they can. Since most players at 10NL are weak players, good players can profit from their mistakes by playing a wider range of hands PF and skillfully playing postfolp.

Andrew Fletcher · #10 12-10-2005, 01:58 AM

What would be the purpose of re-raising a PF raiser at 10NL? With any hand but QQ-AA?