SSHE quiz

[johnzzz]

With reference to SSHE Hand quizzes preflop play question 8 (on p262).

An aggressive player raises from early position, 3 cold callers, SB folds. Hero has 9c 6c. What should Hero do?

The answer is 'Call'.

I can't find a reference to such a play in SSHE. I assummed 9c 6c would be classified as 'Junk Suited Hand (p72) and folded.

In starting hand expectation charts 96s is given a small negative value.

In odds calculator 96s comes out 20.3% against 4 other random players and 11.46% against 9 other random players.

I read the explination for the call but feel I still do not understand. Am I missing something?

[AKQJ10]

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Am I missing something?

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It sounds like you're missing that Hero is in the big blind, hence is getting 9:1 pot odds to put in one more bet.

I always have trouble with these decisions, because some hands are so bad that you shouldn't play them for one more bet getting 9:1. 96s is a suited two-gapper, hence pretty close to "suited junk". (It can make two-card straights with T87 or 875, hence it's slightly better than two uncoordinated suited cards.) I'm a little surprised it's good enough to play there, but I'm confident it's only because of the 9:1 pot odds.

You'll either flop a decent draw or you won't, and unless you flop top pair/lousy kicker it's a hand you're unlikely to mess up postflop.

Just curious, where is this odds calculator that accomodates random hands?

[SheridanCat]

I don't have the book in front of me, so I may not give the same explanation Ed does.


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An aggressive player raises from early position, 3 cold callers, SB folds. Hero has 9c 6c. What should Hero do?


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You're in the big blind. When the action gets to you there are 9 small bets in the pot. The pot odds alone are 9:1, which is plenty good for a call.

Also, your implied odds mean something here. You're looking for a very good flop. You want to flop a flush or at least four to a flush or trips or maybe two pair. How often will you do that? I don't know, I don't have time to calculate it at the moment. But with a raiser and three cold-callers after you, there's a good chance you'll be paid off nicely if you hit your hand.

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I can't find a reference to such a play in SSHE. I assummed 9c 6c would be classified as 'Junk Suited Hand (p72) and folded.


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It would be if the game were tighter or you had to cold call. But you've just seen 3 players cold call an UTG raiser. That is significant. It may well mean that there are three players in this hand that really don't understand what they're doing and may pay you off.

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In odds calculator 96s comes out 20.3% against 4 other random players and 11.46% against 9 other random players.


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If you look at it from a straight equity position, this is a hand you want to play in this position. If your equity is 20% (1/5th) then you are playing correctly since you are 1/5th of the players in the pot. Your equity edge might be very small or even - as it is in this case - but you still have as much equity as anyone else and probably more than some.

These hot-and-cold equity calculations are flawed because you're really not up against random hands, not with a raise and three cold calls. These players have something. It may not be much, but it's probably something. You probably don't actually have 20% equity. But it doesn't matter because the pot odds are favorable and the implied odds are also very good.

Did that clarify at all? I'll have to read Ed's explanation when I get home.

Regards,

T

[AKQJ10]

OK, just read Ed's explanation which I probably should have done before replying. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Basically in addition to covering what we've said about the pot odds, Ed points out that the raiser is aggressive which is important (she's more likely to have unpaired cards, hence top pair of nines might win) and to your left (so your correct flop play is relatively easy, because you can check and act after everyone else has acted hence close the action).

In fairness to the OP, this is a departure from even Ed's "Loose Games" table (and if three cold call, it's probably a loose game!):

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Same hands that you would play from late position for one bet

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which include

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... J7s, 87s-43s, T8s-53s,...

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So 97s would be totally in keeping with his chart, and on 96s he's advocating a departure from the chart based on the aggressiveness and favorable position of the raiser, which boost your implied odds because you won't be trapped on the flop wondering if there's a raiser lurking behind you.

[SheridanCat]

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Basically in addition to covering what we've said about the pot odds, Ed points out that the raiser is aggressive which is important

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That was implicit in my reply, but I didn't mentioned it, which was dumb.

In this scenario, being in early position is actually a good thing. You aren't going to be chasing, usually, so getting to act last isn't that important. The ability to check-raise the entire field will be key to maximizing your win if you do hit.

Regards,

T

[johnzzz]

Poker Calculator 1.1.4
Freeware - ©2002 Janne Raevaara

Sorry I don't have the url.

I would say that getting 9-1 odds in the big blind, you can call with almost anything and it would not be a particularly bad play - especially here, since you are likely to be closing the action.

[Pov]

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Just curious, where is this odds calculator that accomodates random hands?

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There are several, but I like PokerStove the best.