alright, you want a lousy post? just read this one.

[elysium]

live 10-20; the wrecking crew showed up. i locate the sucker in 29 and a half seconds. i'm just a half a second from being on sucker point.

the cards have been terrible; i'm in the CO with 88, the UTG+1 raises in and gets two cold-callers. i call, the BB calls.

flop; 457r, the UTG bets, folded to MP who raises, i reraise, folded to the UTG who reraises, call, call. the UTG is the sucker in this game. the MP is pretty solid, and the turn;

turn; A, the dang UTG comes out betting; the MP raises; there are two diamonds on board. the A is the second diamond. and i fold the thing. it's been a rotten week, so i'm not a callin.

river; what else? the dang 6 of hearts. the UTG says whoop-dee-doo!! and bets out, the MP calls with KK and the UTG turns up 66.

if it hadn't been such a lousy week, i would have called. how bad was my fold. i know that it can't be correct. i know i shoud have called.

i folded though, not so much because i thought i was behind, it was that second diamond on the turn, along with the over-card. so how bad was the fold here? should i have folded? i thought it was correct at first, but later on, i began having second doubts. all comments appreciated.

[MrGo]

not a bad fold whatsoever. No matter if you're going well or not, hanging on for a gutshot is a money-loser in poker.

You figure with it being capped on the flop, you're up against either a set or a higher pocket pair.

See the turn..if it doesn't hit you, leave. You can be assured pocket 8's are no good.

[Mikey]

( Be weak tight like me )
Fold before the flop.

[Net Warrior]

You are no longer allowed to call 2 bets with 88 pre-flop. Yes, I put you off 88 for now.

[Clarkmeister]

Calling the turn is quite OK. You are getting 7.25-1 on your 6 outer and you KNOW you'll pick up 2 more BBs minimum on the river if you hit. All your outs should be clean as neither of these two appear to be on a flush draw.

Calling preflop isn't that bad either. Not great, but you certainly aren't giving up much with your relative position.

[switters]

Calling the turn is quite OK. You are getting 7.25-1 on your 6 outer and you KNOW you'll pick up 2 more BBs minimum on the river if you hit. All your outs should be clean as neither of these two appear to be on a flush draw

I'm not so sure about this -- I think the combination of reads on the UTG and the MP make this a good laydown.

The MPs actions before, on, and after the flop strongly indicate that you are behind on the turn. he is either holding 77, an overpair to your 88, or a big ace that has now paired -- if there were any chance that you could isolate him, it would be a good call, since you do indeed have 6 clean outs against him (unless he has AA - call it 5.75 clean outs...).

BUT, the UTG is, as you said, the "sucker", which informs you that his call preflop means he has two cards that look pretty together (any suited connectors, any pair, any ace...) and his agression post-flop is likely to be any of a wide range of hands that muck up your outs (he could have A6, 67s, 56s, 66 to make an 8 dead, he could have A[img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] to have picked up the diamond draw and make 6[img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] and 8[img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] dead)

the point is, the only out you can truly feel confident about on the end is a non-[img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] 6 -- it got there this time, but that's not a reason to chase. Turns out you actually had four outs this time, which is about how many you will usually have in this situation, and you won't be sure you've won on half of those outs even if they hit! -- it's a good fold, unless the UTG is truly the kind of maniac who will keep pumping it up without the sort of draws i mentioned..

good luck!

-switters

[elysium]

[elysium]

hi everyone
thanks for the responses. having a terrible week and believe it or not, when i'm winning, i make that call. but this past week has been brutal, and it's very true that loses seem to feed one on the other; kinda like a snowball effect. i counted 3 pots that, when winning, i would have been in there and taken them down. but, i am getting called down a lot and i've been this weeks target so i'm folding early and coming in more strongly. however, sometimes that adds to the losses. i am glad that net warrior took me off the 88 cold-calls until i get over this.

[Hat Trick]

There is no other call to make on the turn but fold, I think you did the right thing. The bigger question is shoud you have been there in the first place. Should you call 2 cold with 88? Let's say this is a really loose game, you have 3 in already and are expecting at least 1-2 more so this is an OK call.

FLOP- Again, is the game loose, passive? If you are not re-raising to get rid of people I don't know why you would and if the game is passive will these players be scared off? I hope you are not re-raising on the strength of your "overpair" (8's?, not very far "over") and your gutshot, because that seems like too aggressive a play to me. If I'm in for 2 bets to see the flop, I need to see 4 to a straight or a set to keep going against more than one opponent for even 1 bet.

TURN- So, given that you are here I really think you made the right choice mucking. Bad beat stories are as prevalent as bad muck stories but that does not make it right to play your 7d2c in the small blind just because some other idiot won with it when he only spent 1/2 a bet to complete to see a 722 flop and beat your AA. Stuff happens, it always will. Remember- What doesn't kill us only makes us stronger. Play a solid game and it will turn around eventually.