Two Plus Two Older Archives  

Go Back   Two Plus Two Older Archives > General Poker Discussion > Beginners Questions

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 08-16-2005, 09:30 PM
josh3336 josh3336 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 73
Default Reraising with top pair weak kicker…

Hey I was wondering if it is ok to re raise in position with top pair weak kicker when you know only a stronger hand will call you.

Say you have J10 and the flop comes

J, 8, 2.

Person under the gun bets you re-raise…. Is this a legitimate play? Knowing that only a better hand will call your re-raise?

I just got the Theory of Poker and I am learning a ton from the book. I am not sure if this is covered in it but I just wanted to pose this question now because I have been wondering about it.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 08-16-2005, 10:31 PM
TripleH68 TripleH68 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Ohio
Posts: 390
Default Re: Reraising with top pair weak kicker…

Your question is too vague. Your action depends on preflop action and your read on the players in the hand. You are on the right track in trying to learn position. That will be one of the most important concepts to understand early on.

Plus you are talking about a raise. Reraise is what UTG will do to you after you raise(in this case also called a 3-bet).
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-16-2005, 11:02 PM
Cooker Cooker is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 159
Default Re: Reraising with top pair weak kicker…

I agree with the other poster that there is not nearly enough information in the post to speculate whether or not to raise here. On the flop you gave, he could be on a straight draw with T9, so a raise might be in order, but the number of opponents, the size of the pot, the preflop action, and the play of the bettor on past hands can all drastically change the correct action.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-17-2005, 12:07 AM
josh3336 josh3336 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 73
Default Re: Reraising with top pair weak kicker…

I mean what do you ever get by calling here? You dont know if you are beat so what do you do when facing a turn bet?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-17-2005, 12:16 AM
josh3336 josh3336 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 73
Default Re: Reraising with top pair weak kicker…

For instance say that scenario in a 6 ring where your opponent limped and your raised on the button, he then called.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-17-2005, 10:16 AM
Pov Pov is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 145
Default Re: Reraising with top pair weak kicker…

This would be a fairly standard play, IMO. If villain re-raises your raise you can fold unimproved on the turn. The reason you would raise is to shut out the other players who might have called with a hand like A8s or KQ i.e. overcards and other one-pair hands. Your raise will hopefully get it heads up and net you the best chance to win the hand. What to do if your opponent checks to you on the turn requires knowledge of the opponent and your table image and whether the turn card is likely to have helped villain or the hand he thinks you have.

And don't assume only a better hand will call your raise. There are a lot of worse hands that will call it too. Sklansky's ToP and HEFAP were written before the poker boom and he's assuming most of your opponents are pretty good compared with what you're actually likely to find in the modern game.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-17-2005, 12:12 PM
josh3336 josh3336 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 73
Default Re: Reraising with top pair weak kicker…

Oh yea I am talking in regards to NL play, sorry.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-17-2005, 12:42 PM
AKQJ10 AKQJ10 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 184
Default Re: Reraising with top pair weak kicker…

Ah, details. Don't take this the wrong way, but you'll get a lot more out of this forum if you learn to specify your question better. Now I'm assuming you're talking about no-limit hold 'em, but I half-expect you to surprise us by announcing you're really talking about no-limit deuce-seven triple draw. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I'm not much of a NL expert, but I do know your question hinges entirely on the bet size and how you read it. If it's a small bet like 1/8 pot (because bettor is a bad NL player), or if you read it for weakness, raise substantially. Otherwise fold. Weak kickers are treacherous in NLHE. You don't want to call down to the river only to get shown KJ or something.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-17-2005, 03:14 PM
Pov Pov is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 145
Default Re: Reraising with top pair weak kicker…

[ QUOTE ]
Oh yea I am talking in regards to NL play, sorry.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, that changes things considerably. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I don't give too much NL advice on the Beginner's Forum because I don't have that much experience at it, but I'll try . . . I just have a much higher than usual chance of being totally wrong.

So with that disclaimer, a pair of jacks is not the hand you're looking to make with JT in a no limit game. If the UTG bettor isn't a LAG, I would probably be inclined to fold if I wasn't getting oods to draw to one of my 3 tens and even then I could easily lose or get forced out on the turn so I'm probably mucking this hand as a general rule barring further details. Your idea of raising for information is sound in theory, but the information you gain may not be worth the price of the raise considering you'll have learned basically nothing if your opponent takes his most likely course of action and just calls then checks to you on the turn.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-17-2005, 03:48 PM
4_2_it 4_2_it is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Mayor of Simpleton
Posts: 403
Default Re: Reraising with top pair weak kicker…

[quote Your idea of raising for information is sound in theory, but the information you gain may not be worth the price of the raise considering you'll have learned basically nothing if your opponent takes his most likely course of action and just calls then checks to you on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

If this occurs, take the free river card. Then you will be able to push/call on the river if you don't improve and no scare emerge or you can bet/raise if you hit another J or 10. As the the other posters have stated, it all depends on your read of the opponent.

In NL, this is not a flop to invest a lot of money in, as I can not see an opponent with a worse hand or missed draw paying you off on the river.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:05 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.