How bad did I screw this one up?

[12ozLongneck]

This was a nice win for .25/.50 table, but I think I sold myself short:

Ultimate Bet 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG raises, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, Hero calls, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (12 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(6 players) </font>
SB checks, BB checks, UTG bets, MP2 calls, Hero raises, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds, UTG calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (9 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(3 players) </font>
UTG bets, MP2 folds, Hero raises, UTG calls.

River: (13 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(2 players) </font>
UTG checks, Hero bets, UTG calls.

Final Pot: 15 BB

A few questions:

(1) I think I should have re-raised pre-flop. Would that have been the correct move?

(2) Once I hit the flush on the turn, should I have avoided raising in order keep people around?

[cold_cash]

I think your pre-flop decision depends quite a bit on what you think of the UTG player. Is he a loose raiser, or does he seem to be reasonable? If he's a loosie you can probably re-raise. If he's not, you might consider folding. Either way, it depends a lot on your read of him.

Unless you know he's got solid raising standards, I don't think the cold-call is all that bad here. (Then again, I don't like to call EP raises with hands that can get me in trouble, and that's a real possability in this scenario. Again, it depends on how you see UTG.) Plus, the number of players between you and UTG might effect your decision also. With fewer players, I might lean toward a 3-bet.

Other than the pre-flop decision I think you played the hand fine. If there were more players on the turn going for overcalls might be an option, but since it's shorthanded at that point I like the raise. Plus, if UTG has a high spade you might get to 3-bet it.

[Lexander]

Hmm, my thoughts, for what they are worth.

It depends on the nature of the UTG player. With solid players UTG, I often fold. With your normal loose player I 3-bet it.

On the flop, I usually don't raise here. If somebody has a made flush I could end up paying through the nose hoping to catch, and besides the flush draw I don't have much. I wouldn't mind the button, SB and BB sticking around, particularly if one of them gets overly excited about a weaker flush when it makes (K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] in particular), and except for the flush draw I am not that excited about my hand in this situation.

The play of the turn and river to me is fairly standard. This is one of those situation where I would like to have more people in the hand, particularly somebody who might put in a raise behind me. But in this situation you aren't likely to get any more money than you have already.

[pudley4]

[ QUOTE ]
(2) Once I hit the flush on the turn, should I have avoided raising in order keep people around?

[/ QUOTE ]

Go back and look at the turn action, then tell me which players would have stayed in if you had just called.

[blackaces13]

You played the hand fine.

Calling an EP raise with AQ is fine if you respect the raiser or the raiser is unknown.

Raising the flop against 6 opponents with the nut flush draw is ok. It would have also been ok to call to get more callers and also more people to pay you off if you hit. I think you got unlucky that no one behind you cold called and raising was the right thing to do. Its close either way

Calling the turn would be a mistake with the nut flush, you must raise.

So there you go, no major mistakes at all. NH.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

I wouldn't reraise with AQo preflop. In fact, depending on the game, I'd be tempted to fold.

On the turn, when the action gets to you, it's heads-up, so you didn't miss a bet by raising here. If you just call and he doesn't bet the river, you might lose a bet there.

Post-flop, you played fine.

[Lexander]

Getting some interesting responses. I agree with the sentiment that you might very well fold AQo in this situation (I often do).

I figure I should ask a question about the EV of the flop play from the various responders.

In that situation, with the players at the table, why not go for the overcall?

Several players called the UTG raise, which suggests a loose table of players. In that situation, with that flop, I can't feel very good about my chances of winning without the flush. OTOH, if the flush hits it is likely to be the nuts and I want a few extra callers.

To me, the overcall is my preferred play on a loose table. You really want several people hanging around with second best hands and if MP2 won't call a reraise from UTG then you are HU against the raiser with a drawing hand.

Any thoughts?

[blackaces13]

[ QUOTE ]
In that situation, with the players at the table, why not go for the overcall?


[/ QUOTE ]

On this flop with a bunch of loose callers and 2 overcards you want to raise and hope that all the lone spades call you as well as other weak hands. Hero got unlucky here in that no one called his raise except for the 2 EP players already with a bet in the pot. This was unfortunate but I think in general hero can expect a few cold calls which gets more $$$ into the pot and may well clean up his overcard outs. Ironically, it is because the players are loose here that makes a raise correct, not the other way around.

Also, any additional cold calls he gets he's profitting from because he has the nut flush draw and if you get more than 2 callers on the flop with that you're value betting on an unpaired board.

I think the flop raise is the way to go here it just didn't happen to work out as well as it could have in this particular instance. It didn't hurt him much either though IMO.

[Lexander]

That is a legitimate argument, and one I need to consider. I was seeing it from the opposite perspective, in that simply calling would keep around a couple of the later callers while keeping the cost low. I will have to consider that line of reasoning.

[blackaces13]

[ QUOTE ]
in that simply calling would keep around a couple of the later callers while keeping the cost low.

[/ QUOTE ]

One thing about nut-flush draws in multiway pots with loose players is that you don't want to keep the cost low. This is very important in lower limit games. The hand in question here is not the best example of this because he runs the risk of shutting out some players behind him but if for instance you are on the button and there is a bet and 3 callers to you and you have the nut flush draw you HAVE to raise.

A raise not only may get you a free-card, but more importantly you are likely getting 4:1 on your bet when you have a 2:1 draw to the nuts. This means you're making money on every bet that goes in the pot if you can get more than 2 callers. Also if you are the BB and flop a nut flush draw with a lot of players behind you then you should bet. If its raised by the player on your left and called by 3 players then 3 bet it.

Trying to always draw at flushes, or some straights, as cheaply as possible is not maximizing your EV.

Warning: The above advice does NOT apply to the turn. usually, but not always, if the turn does not complete your flush you want to see the river cheaply.