200-400 hand

[andyfox]

Well, he was present and in a playful mood the next day, so my guess is it couldn't have gone all that bad in the end.

[mike l.]

"he had about $20,000 in bills in front of him, kind of in a messy pile."

did he lose it all?

[andyfox]

Do more players use cash at that stakes to avoid the $10,000 threshhold at the window?

[snakehead]

no, he didn't lose it all. about 15 minutes after the game started, the floorman came over and told him the limo was waiting for him. the game didn't last too long after he left. I lost, but that's no reason to be in a bad mood the next day.

most people at those limits use markers or large chips. very little cash.

[Duke]

You can keep chips in a box too, Andy. 5k and 10k chips are in circulation commonly.

~D

[andyfox]

"I lost, but that's no reason to be in a bad mood the next day."

Best one I can think of.

[andyfox]

"5k and 10k chips are in circulation commonly."

I once was scheduled to meet an Asian supplier at dinner at Caesars Palace. He comes to Las Vegas twice a year for a trade show and gambles excessively while there. He told me he would be playing baccarat and would meet me at 7:00. By 7:30 he's not there and I surmised (correctly) that he had gotten stuck and was attempting to get even. Sure enough, he strolls in at 7:45, and proceeds to tell me that you just have to have deep enough pockets to wait for the tide to turn. I ask him if he got even, and he says yes, but it took a lot. He then reaches into his pocket and pulls out about 30 $10,000 chips.

I ask him if he's afraid of having a hole in his pocket.

He replies, "Well, I wasn't up until now."

[Andy B]

People who play $200/400 don't typically drive $12,000 cars, do they?

[Dan Druff]

Bummer. I must have literally missed this game by a few hours. By the date of your post (and your "last night" claim), this aforementioned 200-400 took place on Monday, 11/24. I was there on that night, but apparently not early enough. There was a "live-one" out-of-towner with a limo waiting, who was playing 80. I wonder if that was him.

Regarding your hand, there was absolutely no way you could lay that down. How much you should raise is up for debate, though I would personally back off once there was a lot of strength shown on the river. However, a fold is certainly not an option here.

Someone here (I think Andy Fox) asked for some more 200-400 hands, just to see how they differ from hands played at the mid-limits. One image that you certainly don't want at a game like 200-400 is that of a folder, or conversely, someone who is afraid of the limit itself. Once you are branded as someone who can be run off of good hands, you will find yourself subjected to a much higher number of bogus/semi-bogus turn and river raises, and your folding to save extra bets will become progressively more incorrect.

The biggest difference I have seen between the upper (80 to 200) limits and the mid (15 to 40) limits is the extra prevalence of cold-calling in the higher games. People are much more willing to cold-call hands like T9s on the button (even without a lot of other players), hoping to either flop a pair or draw and pound the missed AK/AQ into folding, or alternatively suck a lot of money when the T9s actually turns into a flush or straight. For similar reasons, there is a lot more cold-calling of small/medium pocket pairs at the higher limits. After the flop, there tends to be a lot of action if any two players hit anything quasi-decent (such as middle pair).

Some pretty good 30 and 40 players have wondered aloud to me as to how they'd fare at a game that's 80 or higher. I tell them that they should use the "loose-aggressive test" to judge. If loose-agressive mid-limit games (i.e. ones with relatively little pre-flop limping and post-flop checking) give them problems, they should stay away from the higher limits. Also, if the money of a higher game makes you nervous, you should also stay away. You simply cannot play your best poker when worried about how much money you might potentially lose in one hand. There's also the "limit shock" factor. When you grind it out all month at 40-80 and make $20,000, only to lose every penny of it due to a few bad beats at 200-400 in one night, it can be depressing. It's natural to feel like you just wasted all of the hours you spent dutifully building up your roll.

By the way, was there also an 80 Hold 'Em going at the same time as the 200? Or was this 200 game a "converted" 80? There's actually a big difference between the two, as a converted 80 game will feature a lot of players who aren't comfortable with big limits, while a separate 200 sometimes features people who are a little bit TOO comfortable.

-Dan Druff