QT 1/2 hand

imported_adhoc · #1 06-16-2005, 11:57 PM

This was one of my first hands of the night, so I didn't have any reads on the table or players at the time.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 5 folds, Hero calls, 1 fold, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (4 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, SB folds, BB calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (3.50 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, BB calls, UTG raises, Hero 3-bets, BB calls, UTG caps, Hero calls, BB calls.

River: (15.50 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, UTG bets, Hero folds, BB folds.

Final Pot: 16.50 BB

siccjay · #2 06-17-2005, 12:07 AM

Fold Preflop.

Check the turn.

Buck_65 · #3 06-17-2005, 12:22 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Fold Preflop.

Check the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Same. However, if the limper is weak and the blinds are tight, you can raise preflop...

siccjay · #4 06-17-2005, 12:28 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Fold Preflop.

Check the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Same. However, if the limper is weak and the blinds are tight, you can raise preflop...

[/ QUOTE ]

I argee. This is the only way I would ever play it.

imported_adhoc · #5 06-17-2005, 03:15 AM

Maybe this seems straightforward to you guys, but I thought it was kind of an interesting hand. Here are the reasons I did what I did.

Ed Miller says in "Small Stakes Hold Em" that QT is playable for one bet in late position on both tight and loose tables, which is why I played it. I do not see why you would recommend folding it if it is playable on a table of any texture at the small stakes level. Why do you guys think I shouldn't be playing it?

Let me give you a breakdown of what I was thinking at each stage of the hand.

The flop gives me four to a second-nut flush as well as an open-ended straight draw for a combined total of 15 outs. Because it was checked to me, I have no reason to assume that anyone has top pair, and therefore count the 3 queens in the deck as being worth 1.5 outs. So I probably have a total of about 16 1/2 outs here, giving me better than 2 to 1 odds to hit one of my outs on the turn and making it more likely than not that I will improve to a strong hand by the river. I see this as a good spot for a semi-bluff. It may also fold players drawing to weaker hands, and could win the pot right away. It will probably also give me the option of taking free cards if I want to.

The four on the turn is a scare card, and when no one bets I have no reason to think they have hit trips. As such I think it is a good opportunity to continue with my bluff as I could steal the pot right away. In addition, I think I have pot equity here to raise and be called. With better than 2 to 1 odds to make a hand by the river I do not see how a bet could be unprofitable here in the long term. Why do you think I should check the turn and forgo the opportunity to build a bigger pot when I have such a strong draw?

The check-raise by the player UTG suggested to me that he had probably made three of a kind with the four. This will happen, if I figure correctly, about once in 15 times, so I see no reason to assume it has happened this particular time and think I should bet out rather than take a free card, since I think it would probably scare him into folding right away more than 7% of the time. His bet means I shouldn't consider the remaining Queens as outs, which leaves me with 15 outs. This doesn't alter the good drawing odds I think I have, so I continue to reraise in the hopes of building a bigger pot.

I was thinking of my KQ thread from the other day when I folded on the river. I remembered from that discussion that, with a 5% chance of winning, you could only call a single bet on the river for a pot of at least 19 big bets. This pot was less than that and I also think, because I did not improve, my chance of winning was probably less than 5%, so I folded.

Any comments?

imported_adhoc · #6 06-17-2005, 03:23 AM

Plus, if the other guy has trips, he's going to pay me off for more bets when I improve on the river.

istewart · #7 06-17-2005, 03:23 AM

I would raise preflop against most limpers here. Check the turn because 1) you can't fold to a raise, 2) it's a bet with very slim or no value if both choose to call, and 3) you're not folding them both out often enough. Plus, another benefit of checking behind is that they will often bet into you on the river. Since your hand has really no SD value anyway, you can fold when you miss and raise when you make something.

TheMainEvent · #8 06-17-2005, 03:25 AM

You are drawing dead here a lot. Many times the BB will have A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. You are drawing dead or a lot slimmer than you think often enough to make the already thin value of raising the turn disappear.

Borno · #9 06-17-2005, 08:02 AM

I like everything up until your turn 3-bet. This should not be done. The pot is small and you will only win if you hit your draw. Call the turn then fold to a river bet.

After reading posts it is clear checking the turn and calling 1 bet is also a better option. This is because the pot is so small and you are not investing any more than 1 bet to call with your draw that has no show down value.

If the pot were bigger I would bet/call the turn.

gopnik · #10 06-17-2005, 09:27 AM

You totally misplayed the turn. Check behind!
Why do you go to war with a draw with only one card to come?
Plus, there is a chance that you are drawing dead....