kk gets put all-in on the river

Dommer · #1 12-03-2005, 07:20 AM

Villain is a lag/maniac/bad player who puts far too much in with pair type hands and draws. On the flop I was nearly certain I was ahead, figuring him for a pair, probably a 10. So I set about extracting. The turn was a little scary as the only draw got there. On the river I wasn't sure if a value bet was correct or not, I decided to go for it. He went all-in, I was pretty sure I was beat, but I had so much in already I just called. Is anyone folding this river? How do you stay sane and justify the fold to yourself if you do? I'd feel sick if I folded the best hand. Does anyone think I bet too little on the turn?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

MP2 ($100)
MP3 ($105.25)
CO ($64.50)
Hero ($100)
SB ($177.50)
BB ($87.40)
UTG ($10.84)
UTG+1 ($254.50)
UTG+2 ($38.50)
MP1 ($103.55)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $0.50.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls $1, 5 folds, Hero raises to $4, 2 folds, UTG+1 calls $3.

Flop: ($9.50) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero bets $7, UTG+1 raises to $14, Hero calls $7.

Turn: ($37.50) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero bets $20, UTG+1 calls $20.

River: ($77.50) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero bets $25, UTG+1 calls $216.50 (All-In), Hero calls $37 (All-In).

Final Pot: $356

Results in white below: 
UTG+1 has Ts Jc (two pair, jacks and tens).
Hero has Kh Kd (one pair, kings).
Outcome: UTG+1 wins $356.

JaBlue · #2 12-03-2005, 07:41 AM

I like the flop call and the turn bet. You should have pushed the river.

Dommer · #3 12-03-2005, 07:50 AM

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I like the flop call and the turn bet. You should have pushed the river.

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Do u believe a player like this is calling a river push with a pair? Just wondering... I'm sure sometimes it'd work, seems like most of the time you'd be folding him out. Although I guess a 25$ bet is no less transparent if he was any good. Just trying to understand your thought process for a push, it's not something I ever considered doing.

Edit: Also, why am I betting half pot turn if I'm pushing the river?

JaBlue · #4 12-03-2005, 07:58 AM

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I like the flop call and the turn bet. You should have pushed the river.

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Do u believe a player like this is calling a river push with a pair? Just wondering... I'm sure sometimes it'd work, seems like most of the time you'd be folding him out. Although I guess a 25$ bet is no less transparent if he was any good. Just trying to understand your thought process for a push, it's not something I ever considered doing.

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The biggest mistake a lot of these players make is that they call too much with one pair. To answer your question, it is my opinion that he will call 62$ more than twice as often as he'll call 25$ - that is, if he's going to call 25, he's likely to call 60. The pot is 77. a 62 bet is not that scary.

And it's hard to imagine him checking a made hand > 1 pair on the river. Most players at these stakes are not that tricky

Oh yeah, and don't even think about folding for the last bit of your stack on the end.

tripp0807 · #5 12-03-2005, 11:06 AM

He miniraised the flop - this screams top pair on this flop, unless you've got a read on him that he'll limp-call with a pair of threes or maybe eights in the hole UTG. He's probably raising preflop with tens.

You let him get away with it and showed weakness by just calling. RERAISE HIM AND SHOW SOME STRENGTH.

He's showing further weakness by checking the turn. If he's trying for a second check-raise then he's either a) an idiot or b) thinking you're an idiot. It's more likely that he's an idiot. Put him to the test by shoving.

All in all, with the action preceding the river, your call is correct. You cannot fold this.

JaBlue · #6 12-03-2005, 06:12 PM

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He miniraised the flop - this screams top pair on this flop, unless you've got a read on him that he'll limp-call with a pair of threes or maybe eights in the hole UTG. He's probably raising preflop with tens.

You let him get away with it and showed weakness by just calling. RERAISE HIM AND SHOW SOME STRENGTH.

He's showing further weakness by checking the turn. If he's trying for a second check-raise then he's either a) an idiot or b) thinking you're an idiot. It's more likely that he's an idiot. Put him to the test by shoving.

All in all, with the action preceding the river, your call is correct. You cannot fold this.

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So you put him on TP and want to blow him offhis hand? WTF?

Dommer · #7 12-03-2005, 07:09 PM

I agree with jablue on this one, I have to feel someone is a major major donk or has a strong hand themselves before I 3 bet my pair there.

Hattifnatt · #8 12-03-2005, 08:07 PM

Bet a little more on the turn. Check behind on river or bet less so you can fold to a raise.

#9 12-03-2005, 08:34 PM

What about a turn checkraise all in??

ajmargarine · #10 12-03-2005, 08:46 PM

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Bet a little more on the turn. Check behind on river.

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