Should I have smooth called this turn?

Derek132260 · #1 04-08-2005, 03:01 AM

Reads on MP2: Generally he's a calling station who does bluff from time to time when he gets frustrated by past hands...which is where he was here.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
4 folds, MP2 calls, Hero raises, 4 folds, MP2 calls.

Flop: (5.50 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP2 checks, Hero bets, MP2 calls.

Turn: (3.75 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP2 bets, Hero raises, MP2 folds.

Final Pot: 6.75 BB

I raised sensing the bluff, but not giving this player credit for folding to one more bet. Should I have called and let him hang himself on the river? Or was raising here the proper play?

Rev. Good Will · #2 04-08-2005, 03:06 AM

Hells no, nice hand

Shillx · #3 04-08-2005, 03:10 AM

It depends...

There are 3 things that he could be doing here:

A) With pocket kings you can afford to call here but I like raising since he might be betting as a semi-bluff. If he has a draw he won't fold to the raise and you earn yourself another .6 BB in EV.

B) If you really think that he is on a stone bluff then yes you should just call (and call the river). So if he would always check/call a draw then it is best to call and let him bluff again on the river. Since you have KK, he is drawing dead should he have a hand like QJ and you really wouldn't want to lose him before the river.

C) He could have a ten and be making a nice bet so you don't take a free card with AK or AQ. If he is this type of player, you should call the turn and then raise the river. Since the board is paired, he only has two outs and you don't want him to fold in case he has a hand like T9 or 77.

Brad

JimNashe · #4 04-08-2005, 06:43 AM

Given your read on the player I think you should've just called.

It seems to be the classic case of way-ahead-or-way-behind in which case you either pay 2 bets now and fold to a re-raise or call a bet now and one again on the river if he bets there. If he has the 4 you will lose 2 bets and if he doesn't you give him a chance to try and bluff again on the river.

It's true that he could be betting a flush draw, but he's out of position and the pot is somewhat small, so it wouldn't be a good play for him to do so. This doesn't eliminate the chance that he has a flush-draw but it decreases the probability.

Calling him down and just calling again on the river (except if you hit a third king) would be my preferred line here.

ArturiusX · #5 04-08-2005, 07:52 AM

He woke up with a four, at first glance I'm thinking "way infront way behind" theroem. If hes the type to semi bluff, I'd call it and raise him on the river. If he's someone that would wait for the turn with top pair, I'd raise him. If hes a passive, I'd raise him since he'll call anyway.

k000k · #6 04-08-2005, 08:16 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I raised sensing the bluff, but not giving this player credit for folding to one more bet. Should I have called and let him hang himself on the river? Or was raising here the proper play?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, an overpair isn't a lock.. Make him pay to draw an ace or diamond, whatever he's looking for. You should just floor it the whole hand until you get some resistance. You have no reason to slowplay. If he doesn't call your turn raise, he's not calling a river bet unless he improves. Let him hang himself now AND on the river!

Redd · #7 04-08-2005, 10:58 AM

Disclaimer: I'm being GrunchCan's bitch and posting in the dark.

I think this decision is very read dependent. For the smooth call to be profitable, Villain would need to be the type to continue his bluff on the river, and then call your river raise with nothing.

I'd be inclined to think that most would be more likely to call a turn raise (because they're still drawing) more often than they'd call a river raise, so I'd raise the turn.