Zazen

[Popinjay]

I'm trying to start this in my continuing efforts to understand life. I come to 2+2 to ask if it is worth pursuing?

I like a lot of the philosophy but this whole everything is nothing business seems a bit depressing. Also, I read the practice of zazen is all about the tension in the abdominal muscles? That sounds pretty hokey. The book I have is Zen Training by Sekida. Also, it's a real bitch to try to put my legs into the positions recommended.

[imported_ncray]

I think meditation by itself is great. It's very relaxing, and I always feel refreshed afterwards. About Zen philosophy though, I don't think I could delve very deep into it without attending some sort of Japanese/Chinese monastery.

Apparently, you spent all your days in deep meditation on koans (riddles of sorts that can be analyzed in multiple ways) in order to attain enlightenment. You have no real idea when it comes, and some people claim to have achieved enlightenment after a few years, while it takes others decades. Yeah... I'd just stick to the meditation.

[Cyrus]

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I like a lot of the philosophy but this whole everything is nothing business seems a bit depressing.

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Engage in lots of copulation.

[drudman]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm trying to start this in my continuing efforts to understand life. I come to 2+2 to ask if it is worth pursuing?

I like a lot of the philosophy but this whole everything is nothing business seems a bit depressing. Also, I read the practice of zazen is all about the tension in the abdominal muscles? That sounds pretty hokey. The book I have is Zen Training by Sekida. Also, it's a real bitch to try to put my legs into the positions recommended.

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I don't know, I think that these types of borderline nihilist philosophies can actually be quite affirming.

[PairTheBoard]

I like Zen. After reading some thoughts of a couple of Zen masters and pondering a few Koans I realized I was perfectly enlightened and have gone on from there.

PairTheBoard

[K C]

With these sort of meditations it's not really that important that you hold a certain posture, other than being seated in a comfortable position with your back straight. You can even do this on a chair. In fact I may need to practice this since I work leaning over a computer all day [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

KC

[BZ_Zorro]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I like a lot of the philosophy but this whole everything is nothing business seems a bit depressing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Engage in lots of copulation.

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[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm trying to start this in my continuing efforts to understand life. I come to 2+2 to ask if it is worth pursuing?

I like a lot of the philosophy but this whole everything is nothing business seems a bit depressing. Also, I read the practice of zazen is all about the tension in the abdominal muscles? That sounds pretty hokey. The book I have is Zen Training by Sekida. Also, it's a real bitch to try to put my legs into the positions recommended.

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That's a great book. The breathing is important, and the abdominal tension is part of it. But the lotus position is not really important. If you have trouble, try with your legs tucked under you, or just sitting indian style. In the beginning, don't worry about koans or anything else. Just get the breathing right, and focus on that.

[12AX7]

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Apparently, you spent all your days in deep meditation on koans (riddles of sorts that can be analyzed in multiple ways) in order to attain enlightenment. You have no real idea when it comes, and some people claim to have achieved enlightenment after a few years, while it takes others decades. Yeah... I'd just stick to the meditation.

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Err... umm...

"One day it was announced by Master Joshu that the young monk Kyogen had reached an enlightened state. Much impressed by the news, several of his peers went to speak with him. ‘We have heard that you are enlightened. Is this true?’ his fellows inquired? ‘It is,’ Kyogen answered. ‘Tell us,’ said a friend, ‘how do you feel?’ ‘As miserable as ever,’ replied the enlightened Kyogen."

LOL! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I think enlightment, if it really means "complete understanding of the world or universe" is not neccesarily a happy place. (This would be different from the concept of enlightment as the removal of burden.)

[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[tek]

My understanding is that the purpose is to learn to focus totally on the here and now. You don't have to sit like a pretzel staring at a blank wall. Walking, gardening flower arranging, etc are meditation avenues. Getting totally wrapped up in a poker game is okay too.

As far as enlightenment, I see it as a game of chess. You enter and leave the game with nothing, but while playing you focus and try to win. After the game something happens. We don't know what and have no control over that, and thinking about it dilutes our focus on the game at hand.