Trouble with late game aggressiveness

Fredrik · #1 05-06-2005, 03:29 AM

I moved to this table just as we got to the bubble, so my read on all the players is super-tight. When this hand occurs, we haven't seen a showdown in ages; the last one was an all-in AJo against calling AQs. There are occasional flops seen, but someone usually moves all-in and the rest of the field folds.

I haven't done great in this tournament, I have been under the chip-average since the first cards were dealt out. But managed to keep afloat until the bubble.

There are 35 players left in the tourney, 30 gives money.

What do you think about my hind-sight reasoning v/s what actually happened?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t600 (9 handed) converter

Button (t6662)
SB (t4829)
BB (t4793)
UTG (t20914)
UTG+1 (t10820)
Hero (t2070)
MP2 (t14430)
MP3 (t1480)
CO (t5174)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
2 folds, Hero ????

There are 3 alternatives. Fold, call and go all-in. Blinds are getting close and expensive; this might be the best hand I'll see in this tournament. So I shouldn't fold.
Calling cost me a huge part of my chips; but I can get away if it's reraised behind me.
All-in will probably win the pot directly; unless someone has a hand that can contest mine (any PP for example).
All-in is the best alternative.

Hero actually calls t600, 5 folds, BB checks.

Flop: (t1500) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero ????

Take a free card and see if it's a spade, or semi-bluff the flushdraw?

Let's go...

Hero calls [t1470] , BB calls t1470.

Turn: (t2970) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)

River: (t2970) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)

Final Pot: t2970

Aisthesis · #2 05-06-2005, 04:17 AM

No way to limp here for sure. I absolutely HATE getting down that far relative to the blinds, too. So, first (I will say that I only play on Stars, so I don't know how these things go), it would have taken absolutely horrible cards for me not to have moved in in LP (probably would have done it on any connector down to 54 or 64 in this situation). Ok, but if there was just no way to play in LP (I doubt I could have brought myself to re-raise or call all-in with 72o even with that stack in LP) or this situation somehow arose, horrible as it is, I think I'd probably have waited at this point.

For sure, any A or any pair is all-in, probably also KQ or KJ between now and the blind, and I'm calling with anything from the blind. But from EP, I don't think I can do it with QXs.

Just my $.02, although, again, being down to close to 3xBB is pretty dreadful, so much so that it's hard to say that moving in with anything is really a mistake. But the above is probably about the way I'd try to deal with it. At least it's a BB that your stack can actually hurt, so maybe that's worth something.

But, seriously, limping is completely out of the question imo.

CieloAzor · #3 05-06-2005, 07:20 AM

Limping's not a great play here, but if you DO limp and it's raised behind you, you must put the rest in preflop. There's no getting away from it at that point. Having seen the flop, the push is your only option.

Petteri · #4 05-06-2005, 08:38 AM

Certainly you should not limp. Limping in that point of tourney is a big mistake. You do not give blinds chance to fold and risk being bluffed out of the pot. With low stack you have 2 options, raise all-in or fold.

As medium stacks are very keen to finish in prizes you have good position to raise all-in. If you have played tight, you will not get called by medium stacks without premium hand. If game seemed ultra-tight I would have raised all-in.

Medium stacks have more to loose than you. In stack trouble steal can give you few extra chips to survive to prizes. If you get called you are behind.

Rushmore · #5 05-06-2005, 09:30 AM

Allin or fold preflop.

Since you limped, you obviously need to push on this flop to lose any king or bigger queen (and possibly small pocket pair). If he calls, you almost certainly have nine outs.

Based upon your general perspective, I'd say fold preflop.

Based upon the fact that you said that preflop raises are picking up the pot almost every time, I'd push preflop, especially since your position doesn't denote absolute desperation yet (like utg might).