Ok, so I peeked...

[tessarji]

This is a Commerce Casino middle limit game, but the table conditions are very low limit.

The player to my right "Joe" is the best reason for sitting at the table, he plays about 60% of his hands and bets out most flops that are checked to him. He won't get too out of line post-flop without a super hand.

Finally, he has a way of looking at his cards pre-flop that usually exposes the lower right corner of the top card, if I happen to be looking in that direction. And indeed I "happen" quite often.

I have A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] in CO and I limp after 3 players, including Joe. Button limps and 6 see the flop

Flop: 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Checked to "Joe", he bets, I raise, button calls 2, EP player calls 2, Joe 3-bets.

At this moment Joe goes back to his cards to double check and I see he has the 6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].

I call and 4 go to the turn.

Turn is the A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Joe bets again.

What do you feel Joe's hand is, and what should be my play?

[Stormwolf]

strong draw, pair+draw(7d6d)

[Prevaricator]

Does it matter what he has as much as it matters what he doesn't have? The only hands that you lose to are 64 (obviously) or A6d, so I'd be tempted to raise the turn and check the river unless you get help. Raising also narrows the field which is prob good.

On a side note, do other people on this forum believe what youre doing is ethical? WHats the consensus?

[SmileyEH]

[ QUOTE ]

On a side note, do other people on this forum believe what youre doing is ethical? WHats the consensus?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd let him know you can see his cards sometimes. Not doing so is unethical, but if he doesn't take reasonable measures to protect his cards after you've told him, it's fair game IMO.

-SmileyEH

[MrStretchie]

Really? Maybe I'm just a dick, but .. well, you're not going to tell him he's giving you money by playing 60% of hands, right? He should know not to, just like he should know to protect his cards..

[b0000000000m]

I agree. Smily's post presents the standard 2+2 line, but far from all agree with it.

[daryn]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In risposta di:</font><hr />
Really? Maybe I'm just a dick, but .. well, you're not going to tell him he's giving you money by playing 60% of hands, right? He should know not to, just like he should know to protect his cards..

[/ QUOTE ]

the problem is if you are using knowledge like that it's very unfair to the other players at the table.

[Lestat]

Man, I've had this conversation so many times and I'm always amazed at how many people don't get it:

It's not the unfair advantage you have on HIM that's unethical, it's having an unfair advantage on the REST of the table.

I can appreciate that it's his responsibility to protect his hand and if he fails to do so that's his fault. But it's not the REST of the table's responsibility that he protect his hand from you, so that you know cards that they don't.

[Lestat]

Exactly. Didn't see this post before I responded. Glad someone else agrees with this point of view.

[MichaelOar]

OK, suppose a guy has a tell where his legs shake whenever he has a big hand. You sit next to him, so you can see the legs shaking under the table, but guys on the other side of the table can't see the shake, so they have no opportunity to take advantage of this information. Is using this tell unethical?
I don't think so, and I don't think peeking at a guy's cards who doesn't protect them is unethical either. If the information is available, a competent cardplayer is going to take steps to exploit it. Whether it is available to everyone is irrelevant, IMHO.

Maybe it's just me.

Michael