Who likes my turn line?

Maulik · #1 11-21-2005, 05:36 PM

Hate it or love it, i've been laggy for the last hour.

FullTiltPoker Game #301941488: Table St James (6 max) - $1/$2 - No Limit Hold'em - 16:24:23 ET - 2005/11/21
Seat 1: CAPUTS20 ($155.60)
Seat 2: Hero ($193.65)
Seat 3: canesword ($477.10)
Seat 4: clinton kid ($315.90)
Seat 5: G-Eater ($345.80)
Seat 6: bobodog23 ($140.75)
G-Eater posts the small blind of $1
bobodog23 posts the big blind of $2
The button is in seat #4
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]]
CAPUTS20 folds
Hero raises to $8
canesword calls $8
clinton kid calls $8
G-Eater folds
bobodog23 folds
*** FLOP *** [T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]]
Hero bets $20
canesword calls $20
clinton kid calls $20
*** TURN *** [T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]]
Hero bets $165.65, and is all in
canesword folds
clinton kid calls $165.65
*** RIVER *** [T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]]

Hoopster81 · #2 11-21-2005, 05:48 PM

Well, since you included the river, I love it, but a 9 is definately not folding this turn and a set may or may not. Overall, I don't like it.

youngin20 · #3 11-21-2005, 05:56 PM

Well, since you sucked out on what was the second nuts (I assume) then it was a great play. But in general...I hate it. You arent getting called by anything you beat....Nice pot tho...i guess.

Kyriefurro · #4 11-21-2005, 06:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hate it or love it, i've been laggy for the last hour.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the reason I don't like it. Half the point of making this type of play is because you normally have a lot of fold-equity. However, if your image is LAG, then you're fold equity is null. There's a lot that can beat you, more that can draw out on you, and all of it's going to call you.

lautzutao · #5 11-21-2005, 06:44 PM

Against 2 players calling $8 bets preflop I like it a lot

You're drawing live against hands that are ahead of you, and something tells me these guys'll look up your bet with junk like AJ, AT etc...

#6 11-21-2005, 06:53 PM

For me, the problem with this play by itself, is that it is meaningless. If you are also making this play with the nuts and second nuts, then I like--we can't play ABC poker all of the time and throwing plays like this in occasionally can generate extra action later in a session.

I disagree with the previous poster that says a 9 isn't folding here, so I think you have a little bit more FE than they are giving you credit for--not much though.

FWIW, I appreciate 2+2ers posting hands like this and think they are crucial to the development of everyone's game. If one does not choose to augment there playbook with a play like this, I think it is equally beneficial to understand why players do what they do.

Could you elaborate a little more on why you made this play and why you thought it was the correct move at the time?

Maulik · #7 11-21-2005, 08:49 PM

In this hand the pot is already sizeable. I'm first to act so I think I can get hands like two-pair to fold. Additionally, I think I'll get looked up by curious gutshot + pair hands and these are numerous given the board.

If someone has a straight here, I'm certainly not drawing dead and it eliminates a very difficult river decision if I am unimproved.

If this hand makes it to showdown they'll hopefully see a donkish play? I do push the nuts on occasion given my image on the turn and certainly the river if I feel I can get a call down from opponents who think I may be bluffing.

FWIW, making this move without clean outs is uncalled for.

xorbie · #8 11-21-2005, 10:25 PM

It's not terrible, for a few reasons. One is that if you can get people to regularly call a turn push from you with not so great hands, you're in good shape. Top two or a set becomes instant pushville. Secondly, you have a lot of equity against two pair, with an OESD and any K or board pair that doesn't improve a villain to a boat.