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View Poll Results: QJs
Fold 26 78.79%
Raise 1 3.03%
Call 6 18.18%
Voters: 33. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 12-25-2005, 01:59 AM
onegymrat onegymrat is offline
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Default AK flop decision - 20/40

20/40 live, full good game. I open in MP with A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. Very tight player (TP - running bad has caused him to be more passive than usual) cold-calls to my immediate left. I see him calling with AQ, AJ, ATs or a medium pocket pair. All others fold except BB, who is a loosey-goosey and plays a variety of cards. Three to the flop.

FLOP: A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

BB checks. In my mind, I have two choices:
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  #2  
Old 12-25-2005, 02:15 AM
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Default Re: AK flop decision - 20/40

In this spot I like betting the flop becuz if opens up a chance that I can trap the tight player on the turn for more money.

For example: Lets say I bet the flop and the tight player just calls, and the BB calls or folds. Since I would put the tight player on an ace, I would check the turn knowing the tight player will bet and then I will raise.

Also If I bet the flop and the tight player raised and the BB folded, I would just call and checkraise the turn. When out of position, 3 betting the flop and leading the turn is my usual line, but on this drawless of a board I prefer trapping the villain on the bigger streets.

If I bet the flop and the tight player raised, and the BB called, I would 3 bet right away since I have two donating customers, and there's no guarantee the BB will commit more money on the turn, so I'd rather charge him 3 bets now.
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  #3  
Old 12-25-2005, 02:26 AM
private joker private joker is offline
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Default Re: AK flop decision - 20/40

I think this is a pretty easy bet. If you check and TP does bet and BB does call (a parlay) and you checkraise, what hands are going to call you? Pretty much only one of the other 2 aces. If you bet, it looks like a continuation and you can get called down by JJ, etc. Or whatever. And like you said, getting raised will allow you to 3-bet for value.

Checking TPTK in this spot is a bit of FPS.
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  #4  
Old 12-25-2005, 03:28 AM
SackUp SackUp is offline
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Default Re: AK flop decision - 20/40

[ QUOTE ]


Checking TPTK in this spot is a bit of FPS.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd say this is more than a bit of FPS, rather it is the definition of FPS. Put your money in the pot when you have the best hand. What happens if the flop gets checked through?? That would suck big time.

West and PJ are right on. Getting raised and having the bb fold is not the worst thing in the world either. Also, I'd be much more concerned of a TAG checking this flop than him betting out. A TAG will bet and enormous range of hands with this flop after raising, he will typically only be checking if he is trying to be tricky. Maybe try a trap on the turn if you get raised on the flop, otherwise bet, bet, bet!
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  #5  
Old 12-25-2005, 02:02 PM
onegymrat onegymrat is offline
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Default RESULTS

Thank you for the responses. I didn't like my play at all, for I went for the check-raise and should have just bet it through. Oh don't get me wrong, the check-raise worked but...

FLOP ACTION: BB checks, I check, TP bets, BB calls, I check-raise. TP pauses and calls as does BB. Three to the turn.

TURN: 6

BB checks, I bet, TP folds, BB calls. Headsup.

RIVER: 5

BB bets, I call.

BB shows 76o and hits his gutshot. I racked up and went to dinner at Mom's.

Merry Christmas to all.
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  #6  
Old 12-25-2005, 02:13 PM
bernie bernie is offline
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Default Re: RESULTS

BB likely would've stayed in to the river anyways even if you bet out. Just because he won the pot, doesn't mean you played it wrong.

b
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  #7  
Old 12-25-2005, 02:28 PM
Nick Royale Nick Royale is offline
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Default Re: AK flop decision - 20/40

With this read this flop is an easy check/raise, I can't imagine how so many players want to bet out.

When I read a post I assume the reads provided are correct, so while check/raising in this situation is wrong in general, it's obviously correct if we're confident TP will bet. If we bet and TP calls BB will be correct to call with any piece of the board (gut-shot, middle or bottom pair), while check/raising him will trap him for a big mistake.
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  #8  
Old 12-25-2005, 02:43 PM
Nick Royale Nick Royale is offline
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Default Re: RESULTS

[ QUOTE ]
BB likely would've stayed in to the river anyways even if you bet out. Just because he won the pot, doesn't mean you played it wrong.

b

[/ QUOTE ]
Agreed. I love the way this flop was played, BB was making a mistake by calling both on the flop and the turn.
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  #9  
Old 12-25-2005, 03:02 PM
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Default Re: RESULTS

[ QUOTE ]
Thank you for the responses. I didn't like my play at all, for I went for the check-raise and should have just bet it through. Oh don't get me wrong, the check-raise worked but...

FLOP ACTION: BB checks, I check, TP bets, BB calls, I check-raise. TP pauses and calls as does BB. Three to the turn.

TURN: 6

BB checks, I bet, TP folds, BB calls. Headsup.

RIVER: 5

BB bets, I call.

BB shows 76o and hits his gutshot. I racked up and went to dinner at Mom's.

Merry Christmas to all.

[/ QUOTE ]
Any time you induce your opponents to make mistakes, or they happen to make a mistaken on their own, you win. The results in the hand dont matter. You got the BB to pay 2 small bets to hit a gutshot on the turn when he barely had the odds to call one small bet, and then the BB went to the river which is clearly an unprofitable call.

I said I wouldve bet the flop with the intention of trapping on the turn given your read. You decided to use your read to trap the flop which is perfectly fine. I thought you played this hand extremely well as you were thinking on a higher level then most people in this situaiton. You may not like your play in this hand, but I think it is nothing short of excellent.
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  #10  
Old 12-25-2005, 03:45 PM
bernie bernie is offline
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Default Re: RESULTS

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
BB likely would've stayed in to the river anyways even if you bet out. Just because he won the pot, doesn't mean you played it wrong.

b

[/ QUOTE ]
Agreed. I love the way this flop was played, BB was making a mistake by calling both on the flop and the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

He didn't make a mistake calling the turn.

b
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