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  #11  
Old 12-22-2005, 05:37 AM
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Default Re: Big pot with TPTK

[ QUOTE ]
If you are a good player but perhaps not the best player at the table, it seems like it's better to go with a medium stack around 50 bb instead. That way you still cover most of the poor players and you don't risk as much against the good players.

Thoughts?

[/ QUOTE ]
The nuts or close to it will stack the good players and the bad players. If you aren't buying in full because you are scared of the better players I think you should move down. Donks get big stacks sometimes too.

Adapting your play against players is a GOOD thing. Loosen up with position to isolate the donks and foldout the tighties; be (much) less likely to commit your stack with a hand like TPTK vs a tighty than a loosey. You already know how to do this, so don't buy in short.
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  #12  
Old 12-22-2005, 05:51 AM
zaphod zaphod is offline
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Default Re: Big pot with TPTK

I have not played much 10 max. Is it standard to raise with AQ here? I always seems to remember some bad experinces with this hand at 10 man tables.
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  #13  
Old 12-22-2005, 06:36 AM
Supern Supern is offline
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Default Re: Big pot with TPTK

I guess you are right. But I just recently began playing NL. I played limit before and as you know it takes a while to go from loving the TPTK to be careful with it. So at this moment I'm probably not good enough to have a full buy-in. And hey it's hard to move down from 0.10/0.20. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

When I started playing NL i played KQo, KJo, KTo, ATo and such hands alot more than I do now. I guess they are mainly good limit hands.

Now I'm aiming for a straight or a set. And of course TPTK with AK or AQ. I play 8-handed.

And of course I raised with AK every time when I began playing NL. I really don't like AK as much as I did playing limit. If I'm not first in with AK I hardly ever raise with it. Perhaps to isolate 1 loose limper once in a while.

My main weakness is that I am always afraid that I have a set up against me if I'm getting raised on the turn. If I have two pair and no straight or flush is possible and a tight player raises I'm always afraid of the set. And if I don't have top two (A5 from BB or something) and the board is AT95 I'm not very happy with my hand at all. Then it is easier having a small stack.

Cash games NL is so much different than SNG and tournaments. I have learned that the hard way. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I have read all the classic NL books. The one I like the most for cash games is probably "Championship nl & pl hold 'em" by Cloutier.
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  #14  
Old 12-22-2005, 07:12 AM
Malachii Malachii is offline
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Default Re: Big pot with TPTK

Well played. The other option is to push the river, as Villain might check behind with a worse queen which he surely won't fold if you push. I don't see myself getting away from this here.
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  #15  
Old 12-22-2005, 07:35 AM
Wardfish Wardfish is offline
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Default Buying in for 50BB

Barry Greenstein's book points out that there are some advantages to buying in fairly short. The main one seems to be that you have a bigger stack when you are playing well / winning.

I gave this a try for a week or so (about 4000 hands) and results-wise I didnt notice much difference from buying in for 100BB. This was playing 6max 50c/$1.

Afterwards, I decided that playing 100BB was much simpler, especially when 3-tabling, as the way you play hands at 50BB should be different to playing them at 100BB. Having different stack sizes at different tables could un-necessarily confuse things.

I reasoned that if I was worried about being outplayed by big stacks to my left, it was better to switch tables (there are plenty more fish in the sea), and so i reverted to playing 100BB.
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  #16  
Old 12-22-2005, 07:47 AM
Supern Supern is offline
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Default Re: Buying in for 50BB

If you have a smaller stack it seems like players doesn't recognize you as a good player as when you have a big stack. I think I have been getting more calls on my big hands when I have played with a smaller stack. But then again that could be variance.

And having 50bb doesn't change the way you play much. You still have quite a big stack. The thing that differs is of course calling raises which is harder to do because you get worse implied odds.
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  #17  
Old 12-22-2005, 08:00 AM
Wardfish Wardfish is offline
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Default Re: Buying in for 50BB

[ QUOTE ]
If you have a smaller stack it seems like players doesn't recognize you as a good player as when you have a big stack.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with this, to the extent that my 'default' rating of a 100BB player is higher than that for a 50BB player.

I think that having 100+BB against another player with 100+BB you can play more on the river,but with 50BB you are often pot-committed or all-in by the turn. For the better players, this is a big advantage.
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  #18  
Old 12-22-2005, 08:07 AM
Supern Supern is offline
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Default Re: Buying in for 50BB

I guess I am a 50bb player at the moment. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
I have only played NL cash games for 3 weeks and 20 000 hands.
So I'm learning alot every time I play.

I have been studying alot prior to starting out with NL though but I need the playing experience. And one thing that is hardly mentioned in the books is how to play TP.
So that one has been the hardest part.
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  #19  
Old 12-22-2005, 09:19 AM
PinkSteel PinkSteel is offline
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Default Re: Big pot with TPTK

[ QUOTE ]
I don't like playing pots this big with one pair but as far as I can see, the only two ways to avoid it here are to find a way to fold postflop, or to change your preflop play.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm lost on hands like these. Specifically, top pair OOP. Would love to see more comments.

What about checking the flop? I know he hit it, but the real problem is OP's preflop raise got called behind, and he's OOP for the hand.

I think the preflop raise is fine, I'd make it too to buy the button, but if unsuccessful I'd slow down immediately. With these cards, the caller has you over a barrel, and you're likely to win a small pot or lose a big one.

Check the flop, planning to call a modest bet, and either fold (more often) or checkraise and be done thereafter (less often) any bet of 2/3 pot or more.

Reasonable?

Or maybe checking invites too much aggression, and ~1/2 pot, say $7, would be better, fold to a raise?
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  #20  
Old 12-22-2005, 12:21 PM
jd2b2006 jd2b2006 is offline
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Default Re: Big pot with TPTK



[/ QUOTE ]Another option with these stack sizes is to checkraise all-in on the turn, although I don't know if typical players in this game are aggressive enough to make this your best move.

[/ QUOTE ]

What about checking the turn here? I think if villain checks behind, it would be safe to assume he is on the draw. However if he bets, you are in a bind and do not have much info on what villain could have. Soah, what would be the purpose of the c/r here? Is it to end the hand here (since this is hard to play OOP) if villain is bluffing? I have been in the same situation as OP many times recently and think these types of hands are extremely difficult to play.
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