empire 55r JJ facing raise

[schwza]

villain in this hand had been about average in terms of pre-flop raising. probably 50 left, 20 cash. i've been opening more than my share, but have mostly been getting away with it.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t400 (9 handed) converter

MP3 (t23462)
CO (t14469)
Button (t5518)
SB (t10515)
BB (t11977)
UTG (t5424)
UTG+1 (t6590)
MP1 (t17125)
Hero (t11130)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises to t1100</font>, Hero

edit: punch up subject

[tripp0807]

Pop to 3500 call a push.

[Sam T.]

Yuck. "JJ is not the nuts, JJ is not the nuts, JJ is not the nuts."

I don't like a re-raise, simply because a three-bet will make your tummy hurt. Shorter it's an easy push, taller you can re-raise and see what happens, but in this case, I think I call and take a flop.

If I flop an overpair I probably come over the top of many c-bets. If he's on a bigger overpair, well that's life. But I overplay pockets way too much.

[tripp0807]

[ QUOTE ]
Yuck. "JJ is not the nuts, JJ is not the nuts, JJ is not the nuts."

[/ QUOTE ]

Neither is KK or QQ or AK. You don't win tournaments by sitting around waiting for the nuts. A double up is huge here.

[ansky451]

I love taking a flop in this spot. He is in a real crappy position, and he will likely be C-betting any flop. When he bets the flop I'm probably only giving up if its ace high. Even king or queen high I may still be willing to go broke.

[schwza]

ok, i called.

MP3 (t23462)
SB (t10515) 9415 left
MP1 (t17125) 16025
Hero (t11130) 10030

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises to t1100</font>, Hero calls t1100, MP3 calls t1100, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, SB calls t900, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>.

Flop: (t4800) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, MP1 checks, Hero

[Sam T.]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Yuck. "JJ is not the nuts, JJ is not the nuts, JJ is not the nuts."

[/ QUOTE ]

Neither is KK or QQ or AK. You don't win tournaments by sitting around waiting for the nuts. A double up is huge here.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree completely, but facing a raise JJ is significantly worse than KK, and more than a little worse than QQ. If we put the EP raiser on a pretty tight range, there are eighteen combinations that have us crushed (AA-QQ), and twenty-four with which we are a coin-flip (AK-AQ), and a few more that we have crushed (AJ, 99-TT). Compare these numbers with QQ, KK and AK.

Just my two cents, but I think JJ is a whole lot closer to TT than QQ.

[ansky451]

I'd bet 2400 and fold if MP3 or SB pushes, but call if MP1 pushes.

[ QUOTE ]
I'd bet 2400 and fold if MP3 or SB pushes, but call if MP1 pushes.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why call MP1's push?

OP, just wanted to compliment you on posting two hands that are really tough, IMHO.

[ansky451]

Because he's not checking any reasonable hand into 3 players after one has already checked. If he check raised all in on us, I'd expect to see a lower pair quite often.