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  #11  
Old 12-06-2005, 12:27 PM
brettbrettr brettbrettr is offline
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Default Re: Folding the flop for one bet is cool

[ QUOTE ]
I didn't like my odds on the flop,

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?????
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  #12  
Old 12-06-2005, 12:36 PM
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Default Re: Folding the flop for one bet is cool

Why is raising better than calling?

I think that folding here is horrible due to the amount of outs we have for improvment by the turn. I think calling here is good and then we can see what happens on the turn.

We are in a position that if we improve (we have a high chance to be ahead of LAG?) we can raise and charge the whole field 2BB. This may get us a free showdown against LAG and we will have around 8-9 outs on the turn if we don't already hold the best hand.

True
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  #13  
Old 12-06-2005, 12:38 PM
jason_t jason_t is offline
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Default Re: Folding the flop for one bet is cool

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Quote:
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The guy who led the flop was pretty laggy. He was 55/1.2/0 or something like that.


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That's LAGgy?

I got the stats wrong. He was 50/8/1.73. Isn't 1.73 postflop AF high for a 50vpip player? But stats aside, this guy was a super-freak. He liked to get busy with overcards/any pair/draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay. Raise.
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  #14  
Old 12-06-2005, 12:44 PM
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Default Re: Folding the flop for one bet is cool

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This is a standard flop fold IMO, So I think you played this hand well. All you really have here is a draw to one pair, which may or may not be good if you hit it, or when you do hit it on the turn you can easily get rivered.

So you have six outs to a pair that will sometimes win the pot and other times just cost you more money when you lose. This means that you cannot count your draw as a six outer since you wont win every time you hit one of your outs. A better estimate would be that you have 3 pure outs in this situation, and if you add 1 pure out for your backdoor flushdraw you have 4 pure outs IMO.

Now you are gettin 11-1 to call with 4 pure outs, given this information it appears you have just enough to call, however there are 3 people left to act after you, so if you just call there is a decent probability that it will be raised behind you, thus lowering your true odds in this situation. Becuz of a chance of a raising coming behind you, you dont have the odds to call with your weak draw. So folding is the best move.

What about raising the flop?? What will a raise accomplish? Since there are 3 players behind you, I doubt you will be able to muscle them all out, so you will almost never get a free card with this raise, and when you run into a strong hand you will end up paying 3 bets on the flop when you could easily be drawing dead. If the pot were short handed with just one player behind you, then raising this flop makes sense since there is a decent chance the player behind you will fold thus giving you more strategic options on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

You need to recount your outs.

Easy raise.
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  #15  
Old 12-06-2005, 12:59 PM
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Default Re: Folding the flop for one bet is cool

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Okay. Raise.

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I really admire the way you play and everything you add to topics that you post in and am intrigued as to why raising this flop is better than waiting till the turn to put in a raise against this aggro opponent?

True
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  #16  
Old 12-06-2005, 01:04 PM
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Default Re: Folding the flop for one bet is cool

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


Okay. Raise.

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I really admire the way you play and everything you add to topics that you post in and am intrigued as to why raising this flop is better than waiting till the turn to put in a raise against this aggro opponent?

True

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Personally, I relate this to slowplaying, and slowplaying can bite you in the ass if someone draws out to the best hand because you gave them the pot odds to do so.

Slowplaying sucks.
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  #17  
Old 12-06-2005, 01:07 PM
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Default Re: Folding the flop for one bet is cool

[ QUOTE ]

Personally, I relate this to slowplaying, and slowplaying can bite you in the ass if someone draws out to the best hand because you gave them the pot odds to do so.

Slowplaying sucks.

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We are waiting to see if we imrpove by the turn, if we don't we lose up to 4.5 outs....

Is it not better to wait until the turn and then face the whole field with 2 big bets thus having much more chance to clear up As / Ks ?

True
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  #18  
Old 12-06-2005, 01:31 PM
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Default Re: Folding the flop for one bet is cool

[ QUOTE ]
We are waiting to see if we imrpove by the turn, if we don't we lose up to 4.5 outs....

Is it not better to wait until the turn and then face the whole field with 2 big bets thus having much more chance to clear up As / Ks ?

[/ QUOTE ]

In a pot this big, you won't fold a flush draw. You have to charge them the max. However, you have nothing right now, so there's not much to protect by waiting until the turn.
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  #19  
Old 12-06-2005, 01:35 PM
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Default Re: Folding the flop for one bet is cool

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
We are waiting to see if we imrpove by the turn, if we don't we lose up to 4.5 outs....

Is it not better to wait until the turn and then face the whole field with 2 big bets thus having much more chance to clear up As / Ks ?

[/ QUOTE ]

In a pot this big, you won't fold a flush draw. You have to charge them the max. However, you have nothing right now, so there's not much to protect by waiting until the turn.

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I just meant that, wouldn't it be better to wait for an equity increase before committing our chips?

True
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  #20  
Old 12-06-2005, 01:43 PM
brettbrettr brettbrettr is offline
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Default Re: Folding the flop for one bet is cool

[ QUOTE ]
Personally, I relate this to slowplaying, and slowplaying can bite you in the ass if someone draws out to the best hand because you gave them the pot odds to do so.

Slowplaying sucks.

[/ QUOTE ]

So we should be raising to protect ace high?
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