Government's role in our society

[lastchance]

I postulate this: The government should provide services that it can do better than the private sector/individiuals, and not do anything that it can't do better than the private sector/individuals.

Assuming you agree with the above, the most important question is "what can our government do better than we can?"

Situations when the govrenment is better:
1. A program that needs to be standardized and must be consistent across the country. (police, justice system)
2. Central planning required. (roads)

I conclude that the government is most useful when a single, combined effort is more efficient than many individual efforts.

If you think the government should provide a service, you need to prove that a single, combined effort is better than many individual efforts. If you think the government should not provide a service, you need to prove that many individual efforts are better than a single, combined effort.

[tylerdurden]

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I postulate this: The government should provide services that it can do better than the private sector/individiuals, and not do anything that it can't do better than the private sector/individuals.

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Sounds reasonable.

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Assuming you agree with the above, the most important question is "what can our government do better than we can?"

Situations when the govrenment is better:
1. A program that needs to be standardized and must be consistent across the country. (police, justice system)
2. Central planning required. (roads)

[/ QUOTE ]

So central planning is better when central planning is required?

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I conclude that the government is most useful when a single, combined effort is more efficient than many individual efforts.

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Sure. Execpt that there's no such situation.

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If you think the government should provide a service, you need to prove that a single, combined effort is better than many individual efforts. If you think the government should not provide a service, you need to prove that many individual efforts are better than a single, combined effort.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, so prove that roads, police and justice (your examples) "need" central government authority.

[lastchance]

Ok, sure.

Justice needs to be standardized and consistent. You cannot have a bunch of separate organizations with different rules and systems applying the law. It is perhaps the biggest example of where the government is needed because of a huge amount of consistency required.

The Police Force is the same. Plus, it is not exactly a service that you want people to have to buy, considering that they need to solve murders where people will not know who died, as well as breaking up gangs and drug rings where there may not be a lot of complaintants.

Roads require central planning. The government is central planning. Yeah, central planning is better when central planning is required. It would be near impossible to build interstate highways through the private sector considering the size, scope, and magnitude of such a project, and the amount of support required.

My examples are very clear cases where government will do a much better job than the private sector based on the idea that a single, combined effort is required to build them.

[BCPVP]

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Justice needs to be standardized and consistent. You cannot have a bunch of separate organizations with different rules and systems applying the law. It is perhaps the biggest example of where the government is needed because of a huge amount of consistency required.

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Justice isn't consistent now. You think the laws are the same in every state, county, and/or city? Or that every judge will interpret the law in the exact same way? I agree that one of the few roles of gov't should be upholding the law, but your argument is not a good one in favor of that.

I reject pvn's system where justice is for sale to those who can afford it.

One service I'm a little torn on is the space program. Certainly it could be managed better than it is now, but I don't think any company has enough financial interest in sending stuff into space like satellites.

[lehighguy]

That's like totally what everyone is arguing about.

[tylerdurden]

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Justice needs to be standardized and consistent. You cannot have a bunch of separate organizations with different rules and systems applying the law. It is perhaps the biggest example of where the government is needed because of a huge amount of consistency required.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why does it need to be standardized? You just assert that it's required.

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The Police Force is the same. Plus, it is not exactly a service that you want people to have to buy, considering that they need to solve murders where people will not know who died, as well as breaking up gangs and drug rings where there may not be a lot of complaintants.

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If there's no central state, there won't be any drug rings.

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Roads require central planning. The government is central planning. Yeah, central planning is better when central planning is required. It would be near impossible to build interstate highways through the private sector considering the size, scope, and magnitude of such a project, and the amount of support required.

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OK, here you're at least providing a concrete example of why central planning might be desirable. What magic does government have that makes it the only entity that can build roads? Government *can* do it more easily, since it can simply steal whatever land it wants to build a road on, but surely you're not suggesting that government is more efficient at building roads, or better at deciding where to build roads, are you?

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My examples are very clear cases where government will do a much better job than the private sector based on the idea that a single, combined effort is required to build them.

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Clear? It's not clear at all from what you've provided.

[lastchance]

BCPVP's argument is better when it comes to justice and the police force. Having justice and the police force on sale to those who buy it sucks. Plus, to have a true justice system, everyone needs to buy into it and have a say as to the punishments and the crimes, and this is pure government.

If Murder should be outlawed, and I think we can safely say it should, someone needs to uphold it without getting paid money from an individual to investigate it, for it is in the public good. Also, there are many crimes, like extortion and slavery that take place without a complaintant. Without a public police force, these would never be investigated.

I am saying that without government, we would not have interstate highways right now. Government can do it more easily because it has the wide range of funds and support necessary to build a road, and will not extort people to drive on these roads.

When a single combined effort is more efficient than many individual efforts, government should be used.

Space exploration is a very interesting case. While you would rather have many individual efforts, space exploration costs a lot of money, and there's no profit at the end of it. Once the private sector becomes interested enough in space exploration, the government can start pulling out. But right now, one of the very few organizations that is interested enough and has the funds to support space exploration and research is the government.

[bluesbassman]

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One service I'm a little torn on is the space program. Certainly it could be managed better than it is now, but I don't think any company has enough financial interest in sending stuff into space like satellites.

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Um, not true. I actually work for a private company which makes satellites. (I'm an aerospace engineer.) Much, if not most, or our business is from other private companies, such as telecommunications firms. If fact, last week I helped support the launch and mission operations of a satelitte which I helped design for just such a company. It will carry HDTV signals to the U.S. We also design and build launch vehicles.

Personally, I'd like you to take each instance of government being better, individually and not as an "all the eggs in one basket" argument, and presenting your argument.

Me, I miss the 10th Amendment. That sucker was extremely well thought out.

[BCPVP]

I stand corrected.