LO8 1/2 - Was I wrong in pumping this Pot?

[pipes]

I think preflop and the flop are close decisions in whether or not to raise.

But preflop seems like a good raise. Worst case scenario is that you'll make everyone fold except for the two limpers. But you collected some more bets preflop and act last. But most of the time you'll still get someone behind as well as the BB. Especially at 1/2.

Calling the flop seems ideal to me as all of your draws are to the nuts and you want any A3s, non nut flush draws, and other weak hands to call. If you had A3 instead of A2 I think a raise might be better. It might make an A3 fold. Then you could take a free card (if available) if turn missed to try and spike a heart or 2.

Turn, I'd raise the first time and keep pumping like it was Pamela Anderson.

[Webster]

SB might have THOUGHT he had one thing but what he actually had is different - still good but . . . . .


Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
Hero has Qs 6c Ah 2h (Low: 8, 5, 3, 2, A | High: high card, ace).
MP3 has 2c 7c Ad Js (Low: 8, 5, 3, 2, A | High: straight, jack high).
SB has Qc 3s 2s Ac (Low: 8, 5, 3, 2, A | High: one pair, threes).
Outcome: MP3 wins 22.66 BB. Hero wins 5.66 BB. SB wins 5.66 BB. </font>

[benwood]

On the turn you were getting 6 way action for most of the bets, so even if you were getting 6th(as it turned out),it was not costing you any money to freeroll for the high draw. But suppose the turn had started out with 4 opponents instead of 5. If you think you may most likely get quartered but may only get 1/6 if you don't hit your flush draw,you should jam. If you put in 1/5th of the money &amp; get back either 1/4th or 1/6th,the amount that you win or lose will not change significantly if you jam it. BUT,if you hit your nut flush draw it will certainly make a difference.So you are basically freerolling(cheaprolling ?) for the flush draw.

[DyessMan89]

Raise pre-flop, call flop, jam turn, call river.

[Jim Morgan]

Suppose you KNOW that someone else has A2. Also suppose you are only in a 4 handed pot. Should you raise with nut low and a nut flush draw?

Well, we have assumed another A2, so there are only 42 unknown cards instead of the usual 44. Furthermore, we now get to assume that only 4 cards can harm us. (and qutie often our A6 backup will do the job anyhow). Let's also assume that all 9 hearts give us a winner. Not always true, but I already ignored a benefit of the A6. Each raise on the turn will cost us one bet when we get counterfeited. Each raise on the rutn will be neutral when we miss. Each raise on the turn will WIN 2 big bets when we make the straight. In 42 hands, this means a profit of 18-4 = 14 bets. Failing to raise in that situation is a crime against humanity. Amazingly, it is even OK to raise 3 handed if we now make the rational assumption that your A6 will, on average, still get you a tie for low.

In rough terms, raising on nut low with a high redraw against 2 opponents offers you 5-1 on your money even if one oppnent has the nut low too. So... nut flush draws and 8+ way straight draws are enough. And if there is any reasonable chance that your low is the only one, raising is correct with any decent shot for high at all, especially if it can make the current high hand fold. All kinds of good things happen for you and the other low hand if you can get this to happen.

In a related issue, when the pot is 5+ handed raising and re-raising on nut low is correct, even with no redraw and no protection. The only time this fails to be true is if your raises drive the number of players below 5. And of course if you have backup or you actually have the only low, raising is far more profitable than in the cases where you are currently tied.

In essence, the 5th player puts 1/4 bet in your stack for the raise. On the 38 'safe' rivers, this is a total profit of 9.5 bets. On the 4 bad river, you lose 4 bets by raising.

[benwood]

Exactly, Mr.Morgan. Good analysis. Right on.