Who are the scariest shorthanded 20/40 players at Party? (Likely LC)

Grisgra · #1 08-31-2005, 03:15 PM

Besides me, of course [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img].

Threads like these end up being pretty damn useless. But I'm really, REALLY bored right now, so before I get back to work I thought I'd post something marginal. (I don't even have access to PT right now, so I can't even start us off with a list of names.)

On the other hand, I'm playing more and more 20/40, so tell me who to fear. (Though I fear just about everybody at that game. Stupid 50/30/2 players. I hate 'em hate 'em hate 'em. Until they call me down with bottom pair several times in a row and turn a losing session into a 5BB/100 session. Then they're my bestest friends.)

To the complainers: As a resident Carpal Tunnel, I get one marginal post every week or two. I'm due.

Surfbullet · #2 08-31-2005, 03:17 PM

*whine whine LC post go home etc etc*.

How's the 20/40 gris? I'm finally feeling like the 10/20 is my playground, but I'll likely be camped here for awhile since I need the "reliable" income. Is it significantly different?

Surf

sthief09 · #3 08-31-2005, 03:21 PM

it's a fuckload more aggressive and significantly tougher (partially because of a combination of that and the doubled stakes)

Surfbullet · #4 08-31-2005, 03:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]
it's a fuckload more aggressive and significantly tougher (partially because of a combination of that and the doubled stakes)

[/ QUOTE ]

Good to know. Thanks.

Surf

Grisgra · #5 08-31-2005, 03:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]
*whine whine LC post go home etc etc*.

How's the 20/40 gris? I'm finally feeling like the 10/20 is my playground, but I'll likely be camped here for awhile since I need the "reliable" income. Is it significantly different?

Surf

[/ QUOTE ]

The game is freakin' crazy. Even the fish regularly pwn me postflop. It's as though everyone is bluffing at exactly the theoretical rate they should ala Theory of Poker. It's VERY easy to dump lots of bets fast if you get impatient, but on the other hand retreating into your shell and not bluffing ever doesn't seem like a valid strategy, especially when the games are 3-handed and 4-handed (as they often are).

In other words, I love it. The 10/20 seems like the Paradise 1/2 5-handed games after you've played the 20/40. (I've only put in ~7k hands total or so at the 20/40, so I'm definitely not a veteran. Just giving my initial impressions.)

I still play more 10/20 than 20/40, but . . . well, this month I'm going to aim for an even split.

Ah, one big drawback: tables filling up after you've taken some beats but have finally gotten a bead on your opposition. Sorry, but full ring is toooo damn slow.

sublime · #6 08-31-2005, 03:25 PM

[ QUOTE ]
*whine whine LC post go home etc etc*.

How's the 20/40 gris? I'm finally feeling like the 10/20 is my playground, but I'll likely be camped here for awhile since I need the "reliable" income. Is it significantly different?

Surf

[/ QUOTE ]

i beat the 20/40 for a small earn over something like 15k hands and dropped down due to the mental strain.

Grisgra · #7 08-31-2005, 03:39 PM

5-handed or 6-handed. I raise UTG with QJ [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Folded around (thank god) to the BB, who calls.

Flop is A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. He checks, I bet, he calls.

Turn is the K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. He checks, I figure he must have an ISD, a heart draw, or a 2 or a 3, probably an ISD, so I'm hoping he'll fold here. For me to check the turn and then fold the river UI after showing huge weakness just seems . . . weak, and if he has just a 2 or a 3, the K is a scare card -- be unlikely that I don't have a pair at this point given my UTG raise. Besides, I've got outs. (I fold to a turn checkraise, though. Obviously, he very well might have an ace and is just slowplaying it.)

Bastard calls. Nice chip spew, Grisgra.

River is the semi-beautiful T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], giving me the nut straight but putting the third heart on the board. He checks, I decide I have to bet even though he very well could have been on a flush draw. Still, I hope that he'd bet out here instead of going for the sexy.

So I bet, he checkraises, I grimace and call. I'd probably fold any non-paired ace here, by the way, but I've got a freakin' straight.

He shows T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and MHIG. Moron called the turn with no draw and a pair of deuces. And the best hand, of course.

You'd think that in a game like this all you have to do is never bluff, just value-bet, and you'll be fine. While there's some merit to this, it's not as easy as it sounds.

EDIT -- I expect that some people are going to say I should have checked the turn, and folded the river UI. They may be right -- but you don't understand just how many people call the flop with AnyTwo in this game. They don't do it all the time, of course. Not often enough to automatically ensure you a profit. Just often enough to piss you off. Because they only do it to ME when I don't actually have a hand . . .

sthief09 · #8 08-31-2005, 03:46 PM

I'd definitely check the turn and call a non-heart river

Grisgra · #9 08-31-2005, 03:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'd definitely check the turn and call a non-heart river

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that given that turn card I will sometimes get a small pocket, a 2, or a 3 (or an ISD) to fold. (I believe this, in part, because my raise *was* UTG, and players at this limit pay attention to things like that more than at lower limits. This guy didn't, of course.)

In my limited experience in the game a river bet by the SB here would be a value-bet 2/3rds of the time, or some fraction so close to making it even money whether I call or fold that it really doesn't matter. (So I'd probably call for the information.)

Definitely a viable line, and one that I've used many times before, but I really thought that that turn card would scare him into folding something that was beating me.

But checking behind with outs/inducing a river bluff from a broken ISD or flush draw when I hold the nut non-pair isn't so bad either. If I knew he would bluff the river with any two cards if I checked the turn, it's probably even best, though it's close.

Where's King Yao when you need him?

FWIW I didn't have a read on this guy yet, and can't say whether he'd bluff the river with a broken draw. I wonder what the optimal % needs to be for me to take this line . . . because obviously I want to charge him for any draw that he does have. Depends on the % chance I get him to fold the best hand, probably. Still can't believe he called me with a freaking pair of deuces.

sthief09 · #10 08-31-2005, 04:08 PM

you have a gut shot to a probable winner, he might bluff check-raise, he might not fold a 2 or 3, he very well might have absolutely nothing and bluff the river but fold to a bet, if he has a 10 outer (65) and will bluff the river it's approximately break-even, and he might not value bet a 2 or 3 suspecting you have QQ and won't fold, whcih will save you a bet vs betting the turn and taking a showdown. seems like a textbook check-through planning to call the river

also about him betting the river, first of all if he's value betting only 2/3 of the time you turn a huge profit. if you duck a checkraise by an A, you gave yourself 4 outs. if you duck a checkraise from 2 unpaired hearts, you saved yourself 2/3 of the pot. people don't need an A or a pair, or even a draw to call that flop. it's amazing but it's true.