Missed a river bet?

[DCWildcat]

Interpoker (bonus whoring and got trapped since they moved up the min. rake requirement...) so no converter. I'll do my best to make it look purty.

Edit: Sorry, no read on this player, he sat down less than an orbit ago.

.25/.5 Hero is MP2 with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Preflop
2 folds, MP1 calls, Hero calls, <font color="red">MP3 raises, </font>1 fold, Button calls, 1 fold, BB calls, MP1 calls, Hero calls

Pretty standard, not real happy about my position.

Flop: 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 handed, 10.5 BB)

BB checks, MP1 checks, Hero bets, MP3 calls, button calls, BB calls, MP1 folds

Great flop for me and I lead into the preflop raiser for value. Protection is impossible with a pot this big and the nature of the board (only hands staying in will always stay for 2 bets). Betting out offers protection; a C/R won't work since the PFR is to my immediate left.

Turn: K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
BB checks, Hero bets, MP3 raises, Button folds, BB folds, Hero 3-bets, MP3 caps, Hero calls

Wasn't expecting the cap there. I have any 9 dominated, as well as all PP's except 22 and KK. At this point I think I'm up against AK or KQ, or (unlikely) woefully played AA. Doubt the cap would be there on the flush draw.

River: 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Hero checks, MP3 bets, Hero calls.

I don't think a raise would do much good here. He's almost certainly going to bet if I check. I think anything I beat here would just call, and anything that beats me would raise . Thus, I can win or lose 1 by check/calling, and win 1 or lose 2 by bet/calling.

I enjoy "what if" scenarios, but I can only think of one good one for this hand:
If villain simply calls my 3-bet on the turn, do I lead out on the river?

I think yes, since he's probably got AK or KQ, or a donkishly played PP. His play is consistent enough with the former to validate a bet from me.

Any thoughts? Criticisms of my thought process are welcomed along with criticisms of my play.

[tiltaholic]

hi

pf - i'll usually raise here with A9s and one limper but thats minor.
flop - i like that you are thinking "bet for value." but here you can also "check raise for value". check raising is not always about facing the field call two cold, and we don't really want to fold everyone here. i'd check raise to build the pot.

turn i like.

river i'll bet and call a raise.

oh, and you don't dominate 92, K9, and 98 [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img] (not that i'd fear them given his pf raise)

[nomadtla]

[ QUOTE ]
Great flop for me and I lead into the preflop raiser for value. Protection is impossible with a pot this big and the nature of the board (only hands staying in will always stay for 2 bets). Betting out offers protection; a C/R won't work since the PFR is to my immediate left.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's such a great flop for you that I wouldn't C/R here to protect my hand. I C/R here to trap the callers in between you and the PFR for 2. With the way you played it you're lucky the PFR didn't raise and clean the feild, which he should have IMHO.
I'd 3 bet this turn against an unknown for sure. When he caps I go into call down mode. and yes if villan simply calls my turn 3 bet then I lead the river no doubt.
I think villan would play this way with AA, KK, AK, KQ, KJ, posibly KT. Even more likely played that way if his hands were sooted [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. The only one that really worries you is KK = only 3 ways. If he played 22 like this then deffinately make a note on that.
All things considered I think you played the hand fine but I would have gone for a C/R to trap people on the flop.

[shadow29]

[ QUOTE ]
hi

pf - i'll usually raise here with A9s and one limper but thats minor.
flop - i like that you are thinking "bet for value." but here you can also "check raise for value". check raising is not always about facing the field call two cold, and we don't really want to fold everyone here. i'd check raise to build the pot.

turn i like.

river i'll bet and call a raise.

oh, and you don't dominate 92, K9, and 98 [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img] (not that i'd fear them given his pf raise)

[/ QUOTE ]

Looks like you don't suck too much, tilt.

Phil- flush draws will not fold. Even for two bets cold. Nor will JT. I check/raise this flop about every time.

River I think you have to bet and call a raise because flop/turn action looks a lot like AK to me.

[DCWildcat]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
hi

pf - i'll usually raise here with A9s and one limper but thats minor.
flop - i like that you are thinking "bet for value." but here you can also "check raise for value". check raising is not always about facing the field call two cold, and we don't really want to fold everyone here. i'd check raise to build the pot.

turn i like.

river i'll bet and call a raise.

oh, and you don't dominate 92, K9, and 98 [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img] (not that i'd fear them given his pf raise)

[/ QUOTE ]

Looks like you don't suck too much, tilt.

Phil- flush draws will not fold. Even for two bets cold. Nor will JT. I check/raise this flop about every time.

River I think you have to bet and call a raise because flop/turn action looks a lot like AK to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I forgot to mention that I wasn't trying to force out a flush draw, I know that'll always stay till the river.

I was afraid of this getting checked through on the flop. The fear of that, plus the added fact that my bet could be raised and open up a 3-bet from me was enough to dissuade me from going for the C/R, though in retrospect that looks much better. Thanks for the input.

Anderson, you better tell me your classes and professors. I don't want your first semester ending up like mine at DC.

(Note to the 2nd poster that I can't trap anyone with a C/R here).

[tiltaholic]

[ QUOTE ]
(Note to the 2nd poster that I can't trap anyone with a C/R here).

[/ QUOTE ]

sure you can.
you check the flop. MP3 bets...and anyone who calls gets trapped for 2 when you raise.

[DCWildcat]

my bad, i was thinking of "trap" in a different sense

it depends on what your definition of "is" is



sorry about that

[nomadtla]

[ QUOTE ]
(Note to the 2nd poster that I can't trap anyone with a C/R here).

[/ QUOTE ]

If you check/raise MP2 on this flop trapping is exactly what you are doing to all the people who call his bet before you raise it, trapping them for 2 bets.

Tilt beat me to my deffense while I was typing this. Not trying to be a jerk just to show you what I meant by "trap"

[jmgurgeh]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think a raise would do much good here. He's almost certainly going to bet if I check. I think anything I beat here would just call, and anything that beats me would raise . Thus, I can win or lose 1 by check/calling, and win 1 or lose 2 by bet/calling.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not familiar with Interpoker, but I certainly think he'll call a raise with a worse hand. Expecting your opponents to play logically is just giving the vast majority of them way too much credit; the "bet and fold to a raise" on the river play is one that I've seen maybe twice in my time at the micros. More likely he will reraise because he thinks his K is good, or maybe call because he finally realized somebody could have him beat. In any case, I don't see most players getting so attached to their hands and then letting go of them after being checkraised on the river. Maybe that's just me, but I say raise and call a 3-bet if necessary on the river.

Without any other read on this player I don't think you can second-guess your other play too much. Checkraising the flop won't protect your hand, but it will get more money into the pot and not lose players, so I do like that idea. If more than one is on the draw, so much the better because they both have fewer outs, and you still have a nice redraw if a club falls on the turn. As you played it though, I might CR the turn after seeing that K fall, since that may very well get the PFR to continue betting, allowing you to trap the others for two big bets (one at a time). That's a bit more tricky though, since the K may stop QQ, JJ, or TT from betting the turn, and it risks getting checked through. In this case it probably would have been instantly 3-bet though, which might not have been such a terrible thing for you. If the callers fold for two more, there's dead money in the pot; if they call, you build the pot with what is almost certainly the best hand. If you get reraised on the turn making that play, you can still call and bet/call the river. If he raised PF with K9s, then bless his fishy little heart.

[eviljeff]

for the river I think bet/call &gt; check/raise &gt;&gt; check/call. I understand your reasoning that if you b/c and you're ahead you gain nothing and if you're behind you lose a bet, but for this to be true you have to be positive that villain will bet the river.

if villain only calls the 3bet you are *definitely* leading the river