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  #1  
Old 12-23-2005, 10:49 PM
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Default Laying down KK for one bet. Good play?

Villain is very aggressive but certainly not stupid. He is capable of folding good hands when second best but equally capable of getting margainally worse hands to fold against him when he senses weakness. He raises a lot of hands preflop but does not normally play a big pot afterwards if he knows he is beaten. He is a winning player in this game.


Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

SB ($1104.55)
BB ($568)
UTG ($525)
MP ($1519.70)
CO ($2100.25)
Hero ($751.75)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $3.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises to $25</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $50</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises to $150</font>, Hero calls $100.

Flop: ($309) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">MP bets $200</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $509
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  #2  
Old 12-24-2005, 12:14 AM
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Default Re: Laying down KK for one bet. Good play?

That's a pretty crappy flop for KK, and it's close, but I suppose a fold is good

But man a minraise preflop??? He calls profitably with any pocket pair and maybe even a suited connecter, what the hell was that?

I can sort or understand it if his stack was like $150, but you guys are effectively 125BB's deep here, a real raise preflop is neccessary, unless you knew for sure that minraising would cause him to re-re-raise with a bad hand

And yeah, I'm not so sure after he makes it $150 you should just flat call. That's a toughie, and I think you created this tough situation for yourself
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  #3  
Old 12-24-2005, 03:49 AM
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Default Re: Laying down KK for one bet. Good play?

you're right, I definitely played this like crap. I wanted to induce him to come over the top of me at first but after he did, i was almost certain I was up against a big pair and didn't really like my hand anymore. dont really know what i was thinking...

he showed AA though...I guess I unwittingly saved my stack by playing like a donk
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  #4  
Old 12-24-2005, 04:28 AM
aggie aggie is offline
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Default Re: Laying down KK for one bet. Good play?

preflop: real raise &gt; calling &gt; minraising &gt; folding

minraising wasn't your worst option but it's pretty close. And then you call a $100 reraise that puts you in an awkward spot because he's likely to make a big continuation bet with any two he might have. I guess folding is okay on the flop but you totally butchered this preflop. Calling with the intention of getting it all in later isn't bad either.

I also think your table image to him is fairly important in this hand. How do you think he percieves you?
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Old 12-24-2005, 04:50 AM
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Default Re: Laying down KK for one bet. Good play?

He percieves me as a very solid but loose aggressive player. He's never seen me three bet a hand worse than QQ though.

The only hand I can concievably see myself ahead of here is AK suited and even then i'm not in good shape. I'm not sure if he has the balls to 3bet me with air and then bet out strongly on that flop
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  #6  
Old 12-25-2005, 05:22 AM
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Default Re: Laying down KK for one bet. Good play?

Scubba,

After the last post with the Queens and now this post with the Kings, I'm really REALLY concerned you don't appreciate your premium hands.

I guess you are going to let the fact that this guy showed you AA let you feel relieved that you "got out of trouble" really I think you just handicapped yourself for so much future trouble it's ridiculous.

Are you capable of making a minimum raise with KK in the future? Incidentally the minimum raise with any worthy starting hand is 3 times the raise, Never 2 times!

When you have KK, and you see a raise, you should be licking your chops, be ready to go to WAR with KK. You would of lost $750 in this particular hand, but over time you are going to lose SO MUCH MORE than that with your timid playing style with large PP, it's really going to cost you.

whenever I have QQ or KK and a higher PP beats them, I shrug it off no big deal, it does not happen that often. Occasionally you know during the play of a hand, Oh my God, I have QQ I just know this A-hole has KK or AA, Occasionally I will lay it down, VERY RARELY, mainly because I need to be seen as an aggressive player at the table not some whip that will fold KK, that's the worst, now you are inviting bluffs, because if they know you folded that big pocket pair, they know you'll fold anything
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  #7  
Old 12-25-2005, 06:20 AM
MrFeelNothin MrFeelNothin is offline
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Posts: 178
Default Re: Laying down KK for one bet. Good play?

This is because of "pot odds" right Thundercat???


[img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]
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  #8  
Old 12-25-2005, 06:42 AM
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Default Re: Laying down KK for one bet. Good play?

[ QUOTE ]
you're right, I definitely played this like crap. I wanted to induce him to come over the top of me at first but after he did, i was almost certain I was up against a big pair and didn't really like my hand anymore. dont really know what i was thinking...


[/ QUOTE ]

You were thinking that you felt a little funny, probably a way you don't usually feel with KK. Don't listen to posters who make failure acceptable for themselves by excusing pushing in with KK, because, "Blah blah blah, it's never wrong to push KK preflop." Guess what, if he has AA it's very very wrong, so forget about the players who aren't good enough to fold KK, do you want to be the best player you can, or do you want to just meet the standards of others? Have confidence in yourself and do what you know is right.
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