Standard blind defense, right?

pokerjunky · #1 11-25-2005, 10:54 AM

MP3 is actually the CO in this hand since it's 9 handed. No read on him though as he just sat down.

On the turn I figure I'm still ahead of a majority of a the typical 5/10 players's blind stealing hands, so how's my line?

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. MP3 posts a blind of $5.
4 folds, MP3 (poster) raises, 3 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (4.40 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP3 bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (3.20 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP3 bets, Hero raises, MP3 3-bets, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 8.20 BB

Piiop · #2 11-25-2005, 10:59 AM

I'd usually c/r the flop in this situation. Since you didn't, cr'ing the turn is ok and folding once he 3bets is good.

Since our hand is pretty vulnerable here, I'd rather put the pressure on him earlier in the hand hoping he incorrectly folds. I don't want to let him be able to take a free card on the turn.

2+2 wannabe · #3 11-25-2005, 11:01 AM

c/r flop and reevaluate from there

but I wouldn't check-call this flop

sean c · #4 11-25-2005, 11:10 AM

Check/raising the flop and leading the turn is the pretty standard line oop but you could also check/call the flop and donk the turn. I have been doing this some lately with good results.

pokerjunky · #5 11-25-2005, 11:23 AM

Wouldn't a flop c/r look more like either a bluff or a flush draw than a made hand. This board is pretty dry for being HU. Most opponents would wait until the turn to c/r trips here, so in his eyes a flop c/r would look like bull sh$t.

Nick Royale · #6 11-25-2005, 11:25 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I'd usually c/r the flop in this situation. Since you didn't, cr'ing the turn is ok and folding once he 3bets is good.

Since our hand is pretty vulnerable here, I'd rather put the pressure on him earlier in the hand hoping he incorrectly folds. I don't want to let him be able to take a free card on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]
The combined fact that he'll see the turn very often even if we check/raise and that he'll most often autobet the turn if we check/call the flop, makes me like check/raising the turn. We'll almost be ahead at the turn as often as on the flop (given that he rarely folds the flop he'll see 4 cards in both cases, he's even less likely to fold now when the flop is paired).

Plus I think the risk we're getting played off the best hand much more frequently by check/raising the flop. We'll not get 3-betted often on the turn when we're ahead. Also this paired flop will induce more action in a blind steal situation, since our opponents know we're less likely to have hit the flop when it's paired.

I think you should vary these two lines and make sure to use the lines against the right type of players. If he's a LAG I'm probably not taking a line that includes folding. If he's weak/tight check/raising the flop might be better since he's more likely to fold right away. If he's passive I also also like check/raising the flop since he's more likely to take a freecard on the turn and we're less likely to get played off the best hand. Against an unknown 5/10-player I'm inclined to check/raise the turn. He's more likely to fold to a turn check/raise than a flop c/r, he's not likely to take a freecard and he might be aggressive enough to 3-bet the flop with A-high.

All that being said, I'm much more inclined to raise the turn when I have position with weak pairs hu, since I would love a free sd.

sean c · #7 11-25-2005, 11:28 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Wouldn't a flop c/r look more like either a bluff or a flush draw than a made hand. This board is pretty dry for being HU. Most opponents would wait until the turn to c/r trips here, so in his eyes a flop c/r would look like bull sh$t.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bull sh$t or not it puts pressure on the blind stealer if he has air and forces him to make a tough decision sooner rather than later.

Nick Royale · #8 11-25-2005, 11:31 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Check/raising the flop and leading the turn is the pretty standard line oop but you could also check/call the flop and donk the turn. I have been doing this some lately with good results.

[/ QUOTE ]
I've always been scptic to this line, but I think it's time for me to test it.

sean c · #9 11-25-2005, 12:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Check/raising the flop and leading the turn is the pretty standard line oop but you could also check/call the flop and donk the turn. I have been doing this some lately with good results.

[/ QUOTE ]
I've always been scptic to this line, but I think it's time for me to test it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi Nick i play 2/4 party and this seems to be working well against certain abc types when i have a good table image.I also use this line sometimes with a very strong hand that i want to 3-bet on the turn. Not saying it's right just that i have been using it lately with pretty good results over a pretty small sample.