This was just plain ugly

pokerjunky · #1 11-18-2005, 01:54 PM

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is CO with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
2 folds[/i], MP1 calls, 1 fold[/i], MP3 raises, Hero 3-bets, 2 folds[/i], BB caps, MP1 calls, MP3 calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (16.40 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4 players)
BB bets, MP1 folds, MP3 raises, Hero 3-bets, BB caps, MP3 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (14.20 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3 players)
BB bets, MP3 raises, Hero calls, BB calls.

River: (20.20 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3 players)
BB checks, MP3 bets, Hero calls, BB calls.

Final Pot: 23.20 BB

#2 11-18-2005, 03:27 PM

This really is an ugly hand, It looks like the BB has AA, and MP3 has TT. First I would like to say that your Play PREFLOP, FLOP, and RIVER are all standard. The strategic moment of this hand that is debatable is your turn play. This is one of those situations where a read on MP3 would be critical. For instance If MP3 was a really good player, then you could safely fold to his turn raise becuz his turn raise would have to mean he has Aces or he can beat Aces given the flop+preflop action. And if the BB was a solid player, you could deduce that he is capping this flop with either AA or KK, and since you have KK, he is more likely to have AA, which further supports folding this turn. On the flip side, if you are against two lags, then this is an easy 3 bet on the turn. With no reads on your opponents you cant fold this turn on this board, the pot is now too big to lay your hand down. So now its a choice between calling the turn raise or 3 betting to protect your hand the times it is good and attempt to force the BB out of the pot and increase your chances of winning at the showdown. In this horrible situation, with no reads, I prefer your line of cold calling the turn raise. I believe the probability of you having the best hand here is too low to justify 3 betting to protect it. Somehow I feel like I am contradicting myself however, since if the probabilty of you having the best hand is too low to 3 bet then why even cold call the turn raise in the first place, folding would seem to have more merit. I guess on the Party 5-10, with no reads, on this board, I cant fold Kings, yet I cant 3 bet, so I would take the middle road and just call, which just doesnt seem right either. Ok, I'm done babbling. I think you played the hand reasonably, and all decisions on the turn(fold,raise,call) are all close IMO with no reads. With some reads on your opponents, the turn couldve been much easier to play.

Colonel Kataffy · #3 11-18-2005, 03:30 PM

I fold on the turn.

aargh57 · #4 11-18-2005, 03:37 PM

Reads would be helpfull here but I'll take a shot. I think that I'd raise the river. I'm thinking it looks a lot more like BB was playing AK or AQ than AA or TT. MP3 may have a high pp or AT. Scratch that. Come to think of it, what can you gain by raising? BB won't fold AA and you're just getting reraised if BB or MP3 has TT. If BB has AK or AQ he's folding to a raise so at most you'll gain 1 BB from MP3 by raising. BB may just overcall with overcards (probably not but in a pot this huge he might). I think it's close but your chance of getting reraised turns this to a call IMO.

#5 11-18-2005, 03:53 PM

Any reads? I was at a table last night where a couple of players were capping PF with stuff like ATs, so this action could have represented a pair of tens.

Preflop and flop are standard. By MP3's turn raise, I'd get the impression that I'm beaten, but I'd be surprised if it was by both MP3 and BB. BB most likely has JJ-QQ or AK (I don't see AA slowing down here), MP3 has AA, TT or QQ.

Turn call is close - if BB check-raised, or heavy action erupted again on the river, I'd fold like a little girl. But I win often enough to hang in as long as there are no more raises.

gh9801 · #6 11-18-2005, 09:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is CO with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
2 folds[/i], MP1 calls, 1 fold[/i], MP3 raises, Hero 3-bets, 2 folds[/i], BB caps, MP1 calls, MP3 calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (16.40 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4 players)
BB bets, MP1 folds, MP3 raises, Hero 3-bets, BB caps, MP3 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (14.20 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3 players)
BB bets, MP3 raises, Hero calls, BB calls.

River: (20.20 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3 players)
BB checks, MP3 bets, Hero calls, BB calls.

Final Pot: 23.20 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

I play it the same

silkyslim · #7 11-18-2005, 09:12 PM

id probably fold the turn. It looks like one of them has either AA or TT. They would have to be overplaying QQ, JJ and AT for you to continue.

MrEngenic · #8 11-18-2005, 09:14 PM

I had a read in this hand. BB is a rather weak passive 16/6/2 tag with aggression stats 0.5/2.2/2/1.4 (I have 4k hands on him) who doesnt raise AJ or KQ preflop (12 % raise with them). He defends his blind 20 % and steals 20 %. SB was unknown. I would have lost this hand to a bad beat had I stayed, but a 3bet on the flop would have assured I wouldn't have been pushed out of the pot by worse hands. I like your flop 3bet but I fold the turn.

BB was obviously on tilt from loosing on other tables, there is no other explanation.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
2 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, 2 folds, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, BB caps, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, Hero calls, SB calls.

Flop: (17 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets, BB raises, MP1 calls, Hero calls, SB 3-bets, BB caps, MP1 calls, Hero folds, SB calls.

Turn: (15.50 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, MP1 checks.

River: (15.50 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, MP1 bets, SB calls, BB calls.

Final Pot: 18.50 BB

Results in white below: 
SB has Qc Qd (one pair, queens).
BB has Js Ad (one pair, jacks).
MP1 has 5c Ac (flush, ace high).
Outcome: MP1 wins 18.50 BB.

silkyslim · #9 11-18-2005, 09:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I had a read in this hand. BB is a rather weak passive 16/6/2 tag with aggression stats 0.5/2.2/2/1.4 (I have 4k hands on him) who doesnt raise AJ or KQ preflop (12 % raise with them). He defends his blind 20 % and steals 20 %. SB was unknown. I would have lost this hand to a bad beat had I stayed, but a 3bet on the flop would have assured I wouldn't have been pushed out of the pot by worse hands. I like your flop 3bet but I fold the turn.

BB was obviously on tilt from loosing on other tables, there is no other explanation.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
2 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, 2 folds, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, BB caps, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, Hero calls, SB calls.

Flop: (17 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets, BB raises, MP1 calls, Hero calls, SB 3-bets, BB caps, MP1 calls, Hero folds, SB calls.

Turn: (15.50 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, MP1 checks.

River: (15.50 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, MP1 bets, SB calls, BB calls.

Final Pot: 18.50 BB

Results in white below: 
SB has Qc Qd (one pair, queens).
BB has Js Ad (one pair, jacks).
MP1 has 5c Ac (flush, ace high).
Outcome: MP1 wins 18.50 BB. 

[/ QUOTE ]
way to go MP1!!!