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  #1  
Old 08-11-2005, 01:09 PM
bluewilde bluewilde is offline
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Default Two Hands Faced with Calling an All-In

Now, I realize the Trout games are MTTs, but I don't wanna have to go next door and make new friends.

Seriously, I played this game against you guys and figure who better to ask then the other people there. Plus these are both final table hands and so they have a distinctly mid-late game STT feel.

In hand 1, Villain has been playing his big stack aggressively. How should I play this?


PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (8 handed) converter

MP2 (t5615)
CO (t2625)
Button (t4725)
SB (t995)
BB (t903)
Hero (t3560)
UTG+1 (t2277)
MP1 (t4800)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t800</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises to t5615</font>, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: t6715

Before we get to the reraise, how's my opening? If I limp, anticipating a standard biggy raise, I can push. But is A high really a trapping hand like that? I'd probably only like that with AA or KK. I can't open-fold so I think raising is the only line. How's the amount?

How should I have responded to the reraise? My thoughts were:

I "feel" like I'm ahead, but, rationally, this push looks a lot like a PP 77-TT. Furthermore, the whole table has noticed I'm uber tight. This goes two ways: 1) villain knows this raise represents something I don't want to fold so he must have a premium hand 2) villain knows I'm weak so he can likely chase me away with a marginal hand.

He could also have AJ-AQ and I'm dominating, but even in these best-case scenarios, I'm 66%...kinda shaky for all my chips when I'm not under pressure to have a "do or die moment."

Really what it came down to was that I was enjoying myself, and wasn't confident enough in my hand to risk leaving. Worst reason ever?

Also, while I'm not under pressure, I know for a fact that every guy at this table plays better than me. I won't have a larger edge later by passing here IFF I'm ahead. I would have to be unambiguosly sure that the other guy has a PP, which ultimately I was.

Second hand I just didn't believe the guy. He thought for a very long time, so long that it wasn't acting, he seemed legitimately perplexed. I figured the only hands that would give him so much trouble would be a PP lower than Qs, or a flush draw. This was basically a "I'm pretty sure I'm ahead because he took about 45sec to act on a straightforward board" call. Again, I think I have an image as a tighter, weaker player who's been folding a lot postflop and people might be trying to push me around a little. I really thought this was a bluff; did I invent that or did I do a reasonable interpretation of the action. Bad call/good call?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t400 (6 handed) converter

Button (t8185)
SB (t3900)
BB (t3306)
Hero (t4032)
MP (t2702)
CO (t3375)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t1200</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, SB calls t1000, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>.

Flop: (t2325) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t800</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises to t2675</font>, Hero calls t1875.

Turn: (t7675) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>

River: (t7675) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>

Final Pot: t7675
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  #2  
Old 08-11-2005, 01:32 PM
ldavidjm ldavidjm is offline
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Posts: 149
Default Re: Two Hands Faced with Calling an All-In

First hand you have to call 2800 to win 6700, barring an extrodinary read that he has AA or KK this is a fairly easy call. Even against KK you're not in terrible shape. I think the fact that this is a MTT makes the call even easier since you need to gamble and accumulate chips much more than in an SNG. I think folding here is pretty terrible, and I think the PF raise is fine.

Second hand I'm calling as well. In general I ignore timing tells. I also think in hand 2 the flop bet is too weak.
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  #3  
Old 08-11-2005, 01:43 PM
bluewilde bluewilde is offline
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Default Re: Two Hands Faced with Calling an All-In

Really? In the first hand, in spite of the odds, I just felt like I wasn't commited and should wait.

[ QUOTE ]
Second hand I'm calling as well. In general I ignore timing tells. I also think in hand 2 the flop bet is too weak.

[/ QUOTE ]

I usually ignore response time as well, but this was just so out of the ordinary. The bet here was intended to be a probe (sitll prolly shallow) and I'd ditch to any resistance, but because of the way he reacted I ditched that plan.
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  #4  
Old 08-11-2005, 02:05 PM
ldavidjm ldavidjm is offline
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Default Re: Two Hands Faced with Calling an All-In

I hate folding off half my stack it in hand 2. Which is why I'd probably just push that flop to begin with. Pushing preflop is probably good here too, considering you have 10BB and you don't want to be put in the awkward situation of calling someones overpush preflop.

Also, I don't know what point your in (you say these are MTT) but a chance got have 9k chips for a probable flip or better, or eschewing the flip in favor of 2.8k, I think its a super easy decision. You absolutely need to be building a huge stack, and you have to be willing to gamble to do that. You have a very good hand in AK, and you have better than 2:1 odds on your money. I simply cannot see folding as an option.
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  #5  
Old 08-11-2005, 02:10 PM
bluefeet bluefeet is offline
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Posts: 825
Default Re: Two Hands Faced with Calling an All-In

sup blue?

Villian [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] might have been concious of your recent success in the 2+2 tourney...KNOWING you were not going to risk bubbling out here. Likely he could have pushed over the top with a non-AA/KK, but still something that could hold up vs. a 99-JJ kind of hand (say A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] maybe).

Honestly? I'm calling if I'm you in a MTT (to answer your question specifically). A big stack is putting you to the test here with a lot of hands other than AA/KK. And with the general top-heavy payout, I'd take the risk here.

#2 - I've been sitting here trying to think why I liked it (having witnessed it), but I can't put my finger on it. I'd hate to think it was the 'taking time' issue. It's just hard putting him on a Q PF. Cold-calling 1/4 stack with BB still to act here just didn't fit (of course an AA just might!). An AQ might just push over the top of your reluctance to open-push. A KQ might fold in front of BB. His cold-call almost looked like on of those 'worthy to look him up' AJ/T hands (yeah, i know - i got to see). I think if you bet closer to 1600ish, he might have folded. Your 'weakish' 3x PF and your even weaker flop bet gave him the push opportunity - probably putting you on an AJ type hand as well. Had he ripped it a little quicker or minraised you back, you might have just folded [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]


EDIT: "I liked" as in "the call" - concurring w/ suited's comment...yes, push this PF next time.
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  #6  
Old 08-11-2005, 02:10 PM
45suited 45suited is offline
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Default Re: Two Hands Faced with Calling an All-In

Regarding hand 2, I'm surprised that nobody has brought this up:

You're UTG 6 handed with 10BB. If you're going to raise, why not just push pre-flop?
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