AT flops a flush draw - how to play?

[AlphaWice]

I noticed both repliers told me to raise preflop. This is completely against my line of thinking. Why raise preflop? I believe my ace is too weak, and I am only limping in late because of the flush draw (with ATo I would fold outright here.) Is this a strong leak in my game? Can someone explain whether it is good to raise PF here with ATs, and why?

[Dave D]

I also wouldn't raise ATs here, and would probably fold AT you're not alone. I'm not sure how many place/win seats, but it sounds like you're close and that's another reason to try to stall out.

I would bet the flop only 600 (a pot bet looks suspicously big here, 2/3-3/4 is my standard) and follow up on the turn. If he calls me all the way, and I'm giving him awful odds to draw, I check behind on the river and hope my ace is good.

[woodguy]

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I noticed both repliers told me to raise preflop. This is completely against my line of thinking. Why raise preflop?

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1) To limit the number of players in the hand. Limping encourages more players (especially the blinds) to come in behind you. Most flop miss most hand, therefore I want to limit the number of hands in the flop, so if I miss and have few opponents, chances are they missed too and I can win the pot with a cont bet on the flop

2) To take control of the action. As soon as you are making your opponents react to you, NLHE is much easier. If I raised PF I can take the pot down on the flop with a cont-bet that has meaning (i.e. it represents that I have a hand)

3) To represent a bigger hand that you have.

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I believe my ace is too weak,

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Your opponents don't know that, why tell them with a limp?

The open limper already told you his hand was weak, raise it up and put him on the defensive.

4) Hitting the flop is hard. You miss most flops, constantly limping to hit flops is a leak, unless you are really deep.

5) Easier decision later in the hand. If you represent strength once or twice in a hand and still get played back at, you can give your opponent credit for a hand and fold comfortably. If you limp often you have no clue where you are in the hand and decsiions get tougher.

6) Limping to hit a flush doesn't pay enough. If you make the flush, you rarely get paid for it as its pretty obvious what you have.

7) To win the pot PF. There is 500 in the pot when it gets to you. If you win it outright on the flop, life is good, easy chips.

8) Raising is fun


That's all I can think of right now (at work), perhaps others can add to the list.

Regards,
Woodguy

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I believe my ace is too weak, and I am only limping in late because of the flush draw (with ATo I would fold outright here.) Is this a strong leak in my game?

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Folding is extremely weak tight (and this is coming from someone who is often accused of being very weak tight [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]).

Pre-flop in that situation, almost any hand worth playing is worth a raise. The raise sets up how you are going to play the rest of the hand.

As for the rest of the hand, let's ask this question. If someone else would have bet into you on the flop, would you have called or raised? The answer is almost certainly yes.

Any hand that is worth a cold call or overcall is almost certainly worth enough to bet out, and probably call a check raise in most cases.

The only strength in the board is in your favor. It is entirely possible that you are ahead on the flop. Why give your opponents free shots to put you at a disadvantage?

This is a hand that I'd be looking to take down on the flop or turn, based upon the way I set the hand up preflop and on the flop.

Sure an opponent may put you on flush draw with no pair, or straight draw with no pair. But by betting out, you are making them pay to find out.

You have perhaps 7-9 outs twice for the nut flush, and another 2-3 outs twice for top pair which seems likely to hold up on its own.

That's more than enough strength to be betting out on the flop.