"Unions are Evil"

[TomCollins]

Unions can be a great tool. Unfortunately, they aren't being used that way.

Imagine an electricians union. They screen who can get in. You have to have a level of expirience, pass tests, and prove you know what you are doing. You are then in the union. The union can sell itself as having better quality work and therefore hiring more expensive union workers is a better proposition for the company.

Most people are willing to pay a little extra for extra quality. Most companies are as well.

So where do unskilled unions come from? They offer no unique skillset, no benefits to the employer. Is it government protection that prevents the employer from simply replacing workers who demand more money without cause? Why would any business owner agree to support a union when a new workforce can be trained within a week?

[Hamish McBagpipe]

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Imagine an electricians union. They screen who can get in...

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This is what many people fail to realize. Skilled trades unions such as electricians, operating engineers, carpenters, etc. are only protecting their own trade. Traditionally, a skilled trade union has been able to keep the standards of the industry high. Increasingly, however, the US government has introduced legislation trumping a skilled trade union's power over its own trade. When they have done this the training and education of new members, safety standards, and workmanship have declined.

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So where do unskilled unions come from? They offer no unique skillset, no benefits to the employer. Is it government protection that prevents the employer from simply replacing workers who demand more money without cause? Why would any business owner agree to support a union when a new workforce can be trained within a week?

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We're not asking for the owner to support the union, believe me. Successor rights legislation prevent a company from just closing for a day and reopening under a new name in order to bust the union. This legislation prevents mass labour unrest.

The employees demand, through the union, a wage increase. What's to prevent the company from firing them all? Nothing really. The bargaining process is set up by legislation to stop one party or the other acting too hastily but once the process is exhausted a company can lock out its employees and hire new ones depending on local anti-scab legislation.

Any group of employees, skilled or unskilled, can democratically form a union in order to collectively negotiate better wages and benefits because on their own, as you say, they have no power, the company has it all. Without a union there is pitifully little legislation protecting workers. You seem to suggest that employees should be discarded at whim. I believe that in the lop-sided employee-employer relationship, especially when the only thing that the employee has is his time in, collective action is the only way to at least have some small chance at leveling the playing field.

In solidarity, Hamish.

[BadBoyBenny]

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What's to prevent the company from firing them all? Nothing really.

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Maybe the competition?

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Imagine an electricians union. They screen who can get in. You have to have a level of expirience, pass tests, and prove you know what you are doing. You are then in the union. The union can sell itself as having better quality work and therefore hiring more expensive union workers is a better proposition for the company.

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That would be nice if they actually worked that way. My dad had to recently join the elevator union because they harassed him at every job site he was at when he was non-union. They would say that he was breaking security regulations and other stuff. The truth is they were full of [censored]. My dad has been in the business for 33 years, and he is the 4th generation to work with elevators.

The corrupt leaders of the union offered union membership to several employees of my dad's business and then fired them once my dad was "forced" to join the union. They never wanted the employees, they just want to dismantle any competition. Everyone was hurt except for the top members of the union. The consumer has to pay more for an elevator now because of the oligopoly and workers lost their jobs.

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Most people are willing to pay a little extra for extra quality. Most companies are as well.

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Union quality is usually poor. My dad refuses to higher any union workers because he knows how worthless they are. The union workers have no reason to be good because the union controls the labor supply.

[slamdunkpro]

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Imagine an electricians union. They screen who can get in. You have to have a level of expirience, pass tests, and prove you know what you are doing. You then have to be sponsored, bribe, be related to a member, or otherwise extort your way into the union

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FYP

This is called licensure. Its what physicians do. It has no relationship to the purpose of a union.

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Unions can be a great tool. Unfortunately, they aren't being used that way.

Imagine an electricians union. They screen who can get in. You have to have a level of expirience, pass tests, and prove you know what you are doing. You are then in the union. The union can sell itself as having better quality work and therefore hiring more expensive union workers is a better proposition for the company.

Most people are willing to pay a little extra for extra quality. Most companies are as well.

So where do unskilled unions come from? They offer no unique skillset, no benefits to the employer. Is it government protection that prevents the employer from simply replacing workers who demand more money without cause? Why would any business owner agree to support a union when a new workforce can be trained within a week?

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Unions make employees feel they are "entitled" to compensation increases regardless of company performance.

My local teachers union, already the highest paid teachers in the state, went on strike following the 2001 recession when tons of students' parents had been laid off and couldn't find jobs (ie. the real world). These teachers now get paid around $105K + a ~$25K PPO plan, after 8 years teaching + a masters. Just sickening.

[BadBoyBenny]

Those bastards probably only work 185 days a year too.

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Those bastards probably only work 185 days a year too.

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Yes, summers off naturally. And after 10 years of teaching they get tenure, which prevents them from ever being fired or layed off except for extreme cases (which never happen).

And when the next contract is up in 3-4 years, they will go on strike again if they dont get another large pay raise and increase in an already lucrative medical compensation package.

Again, a total detachment from reality due to "entitlement" syndrome that goes along with doling out confiscated taxpayer money.

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Those bastards probably only work 185 days a year too.

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Yes, summers off naturally. And after 10 years of teaching they get tenure, which prevents them from ever being fired or layed off except for extreme cases (which never happen).

And when the next contract is up in 3-4 years, they will go on strike again if they dont get another large pay raise and increase in an already lucrative medical compensation package.

Again, a total detachment from reality due to "entitlement" syndrome that goes along with doling out confiscated taxpayer money.

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My high school physics teacher choked another female teacher at one of the board of ed meetings and he was untouchable because of tenure. He also threatened to kill the principle.