KTs 3-way vs a semi-LAG TAG and an ape

[KDawgCometh]

well, really, it all depends on what the sb is capable of. If he is capable of making that cap with trips along with any FH or Quads hand, then I call. But, if he is only capapble of making that cap with just FH or Quads hands, then you have to fold

the main problem is the overcalling situation. We know that we can beat the button a very good amount of the time, but, the sb capping on that board when we wake up too is a massive worry.

At this level, I may be inclined to call, but if this was higher, a fold might have to be in order. it really all depends on how good the sb is for the correct decision to be had

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So which one has 2 pair? The guy who 3 bet after calling the whole way or the guy who capped?

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Well, you've got one LAG/TAG and one incompetent ape. You are right that realizing I folded the best hand against them would be stultifying.

But do realize that the board pairing the A makes it less likely that someone has that card. There are just so many more A trip hands and two pair hands that you could be against that an ape might play this way that I just couldn't make myself fold.

I forgot to include in my calculation your implied odds if a Jh hits. I think it is fair to say you can cap the river if that hits, making you probably 8 extra BB in that case. That helps your equity somewhat.

[brazilio]

The LAG/TAG has an overaggression problem, but he's certainly not stupid and he's a good hand reader. I think you're making a mistake by saying the A pairing makes that card more unlikely. I would much much rather have the Q pairing than the A pairing, simply because hand ranges include an Ace a huge majority of time. I also think you're giving too much emphasis on the Button. He's truly incompetent. I really don't think the SB is going to cap AK on that board, and that's just about the only hand we beat. I'm not sure one way or the other about the river decision, but I do think it's really close.

[Alex/Mugaaz]

If I'm playing well I fold here. If I'm not I make a crying call and bitch about how unlucky I am.

[MicroBob]

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SB is a semi-LAG TAG who tilts occasionally. He's pretty ok, perhaps a little loose preflop and generally pretty straightforward postflop, occasionally does donky stuff and has a bad habit of calling down a bit too much. He hasn't been tilting tonight.

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The LAG/TAG has an overaggression problem, but he's certainly not stupid and he's a good hand reader.

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If I didn't know any better I'd say you were playing against me.


On the river: yiiikes. that sucks.
Obviously being up against 2 players makes it REALLY sucky.

I've had hands where it was 3-handed on the river and I made 'good laydowns' to a bet and a raise (or even a check-raise) because there was no way my marginal holding would beat BOTH guys.
When I'm wrong though in a big pot it does tend to sting.

I disagree that calling just to avoid the tilt possibility is a good idea though.
Calling should be done if you have the odds to win the showdown.

One guy can be getting wacky with trips while the donk was trying to 'bluff' with a lone Q or something stupid (or even another non-FH Ace).

I think there is BARELY enough chance of something weird like that to call it.

[brazilio]

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SB is a semi-LAG TAG who tilts occasionally. He's pretty ok, perhaps a little loose preflop and generally pretty straightforward postflop, occasionally does donky stuff and has a bad habit of calling down a bit too much. He hasn't been tilting tonight.

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The LAG/TAG has an overaggression problem, but he's certainly not stupid and he's a good hand reader.

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If I didn't know any better I'd say you were playing against me.


On the river: yiiikes. that sucks.
Obviously being up against 2 players makes it REALLY sucky.

I've had hands where it was 3-handed on the river and I made 'good laydowns' to a bet and a raise (or even a check-raise) because there was no way my marginal holding would beat BOTH guys.
When I'm wrong though in a big pot it does tend to sting.

I disagree that calling just to avoid the tilt possibility is a good idea though.
Calling should be done if you have the odds to win the showdown.

One guy can be getting wacky with trips while the donk was trying to 'bluff' with a lone Q or something stupid (or even another non-FH Ace).

I think there is BARELY enough chance of something weird like that to call it.

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Funny you mention that, because I was actually the SB in the hand. The BB is a TAG I play with frequently, but due to a few tilting problems I'm sure my image is pretty maniacal occasionally mixed with ok postflop play. I had QQ in the hand, but I thought his river decision was pretty interesting and very close. Button had QJo for the rivered 3-pair. Behaving as if I were him with KTs, I think he's not worried at all about the Button, but he really has to question whether I'll cap with AK on that board. I don't know how aware he is, but I hadn't tilted at all that night and I was on my A game pretty much. Capping with AK after 2 guys give action on that card is awfully cheese.

[baronzeus]

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Funny you mention that, because I was actually the SB in the hand.

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against any thinking player this river is an instamuck.



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due to a few tilting problems I'm sure my image is pretty maniacal

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fix the tilting problem [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

I'm wondering why you didnt raise the flop?

[KDawgCometh]

we had talked about this on the irc. As someone who has played against braz before, unless I was dead sure that he was on major tilt, I'm folding the river. I don't see you capping that river with just trips.

The key for me is that you still cap after a good player all of a sudden wakes up on the river. You are telling him, okay, you just made your hand, but guess what, I still have you beat. I know that the button is a fucktard, and I'm gonna pump my FH/Quads. A FH/Quads is the only hand that I can see a good player pumping that river with