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  #51  
Old 11-15-2005, 10:29 PM
dogmeat dogmeat is offline
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Default Re: Health Insurance EV question

You can get catastrophic-only medical insurance. It is available for medical emergencies that will cost you a minimum of $10,000 - and you can fund the rest yourself.

A 21-year old with no medical problems can probably get a decent HMO plan for about $150-$200 a month, depending on where you live. Consider taking that amount and puting it into a low-risk, low yeild mutual fund. If you earn 5%+ then you will have more than the $10K available in less than 4 years, then you can stop funding if you want, or keep puting the money away, and you will have an excellent start on a serious retirement fund.

Dogmeat [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
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  #52  
Old 11-16-2005, 01:30 AM
Daniture Daniture is offline
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Default Re: Health Insurance EV question

Poker players don't make enough not to have insurance.

Myself for example a picture of health at 18 into sports etc etc. Come down with a sudden illness while on summer vacation. End up having emergency surgery and spending 10 days in hospital and am currently on meds which would set me back roughly 36K a year

Going to the Pharmacy every 2 months to go get your meds and seeing a bill which says :
Total Cost 6,000.00
Paitent pays 0.00

It's kind of -EV one shouldn't be living without.

I equate health insurance to insuring 20 against a ace in BJ. Except that the entire table pitches in the money to insure your 20 rather then you paying yourself. so overall it is negative EV except when its your 20 then its EV+ as the table is paying for the majority of it.
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  #53  
Old 11-16-2005, 02:00 AM
obsidian obsidian is offline
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Location: IL
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Default Re: Health Insurance EV question

[ QUOTE ]
Poker players don't make enough not to have insurance.

Myself for example a picture of health at 18 into sports etc etc. Come down with a sudden illness while on summer vacation. End up having emergency surgery and spending 10 days in hospital and am currently on meds which would set me back roughly 36K a year

Going to the Pharmacy every 2 months to go get your meds and seeing a bill which says :
Total Cost 6,000.00
Paitent pays 0.00

It's kind of -EV one shouldn't be living without.

I equate health insurance to insuring 20 against a ace in BJ. Except that the entire table pitches in the money to insure your 20 rather then you paying yourself. so overall it is negative EV except when its your 20 then its EV+ as the table is paying for the majority of it.

[/ QUOTE ]
I understand that this can happen to anyone, but if it did then the health insurance companies would increase the cost or go bankrupt. This is simply an EV decision and health insurance is far from +EV. However, being totally ruined from a health problem is what you really need to prevent here and something that would cover all $10000+ problems sounds like the best idea.
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  #54  
Old 11-16-2005, 02:11 AM
RobertHunter RobertHunter is offline
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Default Re: Health Insurance EV question

I pay my health insurance premium before all other bills.Also, if you are self employed and have a working spouse I would suggest getting insurance on your own and not through their employer.This way if they ever quit or get fired you still have coverage and you can then add them onto your policy.
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  #55  
Old 11-16-2005, 06:57 AM
whitelime whitelime is offline
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Default Re: Health Insurance EV question

Too busy to read the replies but if no one mentioned it, one of the biggest reasons to get health insurance is that insurance companies get bargained prices. They pay only a fraction of what youd have to pay a doctor directly.
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  #56  
Old 11-16-2005, 07:06 AM
etizzle etizzle is offline
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Posts: 63
Default Re: Health Insurance EV question

zeebo-

health insurance is +eUtility because of decreasing marginal utility of $.

You probably know what this is or can figure it out but for those that dont, it just means that a dollar is worth more when you are poor and less when you are rich in terms of utility.

So the money lost is more damaging when you lose a lot of cash due to an operation than the small amount of money you pay for insurance, even if they have the same expected value. i.e. if you lose $100 10% of the time for health reasons and it costs 10$ to be fully insured, you should prefer to fully insure yourself. This is the because the $ vs utility curve is generally modeled as a logarithmic function.
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  #57  
Old 11-16-2005, 09:10 AM
BigBaitsim (milo) BigBaitsim (milo) is offline
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Posts: 373
Default Re: Health Insurance EV question

As I understand it, the number one or number two reason people declare bankruptcy is that they have medical bills they cannot afford to pay. Young or not, accidents happen and illness happens. One brief hospitalization can run up tens of thousands in debt. Health insurance is expensive, but given the potential downside of catastrophic financial loss, it is way +EV.
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  #58  
Old 11-16-2005, 09:23 AM
punter11235 punter11235 is offline
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Default Re: Health Insurance EV question

[ QUOTE ]
Health insurance is expensive, but given the potential downside of catastrophic financial loss, it is way +EV.

[/ QUOTE ]

Insurance is always -EV no matter whats your financial situation.
But EV is not good enough criterium to make decisions which are big comparing to your bankroll. So for example if you earn 100k/year you surely should get an insurance but if you eartn 100millions/year you dont need an insurance because you will not get hurt (financially) even by 365 day hospitalization.
Now 100millions is definitely exageration, so the question is on which level of bankroll/salary you can forget about health insurance...
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  #59  
Old 11-16-2005, 09:26 AM
punter11235 punter11235 is offline
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Location: Poland
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Default Re: Health Insurance EV question

[ QUOTE ]
This is the because the $ vs utility curve is generally modeled as a logarithmic function.

[/ QUOTE ]

I heard about that but dont agree that it is "generally modeled" that way. Do you happen to have links to some sources about the subject because I am really interested in it.
Best wishes
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  #60  
Old 11-16-2005, 10:19 AM
phish phish is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 47
Default Re: Health Insurance EV question

[ QUOTE ]
Most insurance is a scam.

It benefits from the unproven folk wisdom that "you HAVE to have it". It's nice to have a comprehensive plan that covers everything. As long as someone else is paying the premiums.

Otherwise, get an inexpensive catastrophic coverage policy with a $2 million limit. No prescriptions, no doctor visits, $5000 deductible. Then pay cash for everything. Standard discounts are 20%-%50 just for the asking. Shop around. Tell your doctor you are uninsured. My doctor saves all his valuable samples for uninsured patients. If your doctor won't do this, find another. Last year, I needed a CAT scan for my arm. The doc said it would cost at least $1000. I found a clinic specialized, got the scan, radiologist review and report for about $200.

Better yet, pay all your bills with credit cards and get miles (plus your discount, of course).

Buy your drugs online or at Costco.
If you end up in an ambulance or hospital, if you are lucid scan the form they want you to sign. Cross out arbitration clauses and anything else onerous -- they probably won't even notice. When you get the bill, review it with a billing administrator and question every single line. Demand that they remove anything they can't clearly justify medically. (I was charged $200 for salt water. They removed it.) If you find yourself needing an expensive operation, consider Canada or Thailand. Bumrumgrad Hospital is world class at a fraction of US cost. Combine it with a vacation and write off the travel cost as a medical expense.

Health care is really no different from other expenses.
You can pay list price and get nothing, or with a little legwork get real value at a fraction of what "everybody" pays.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your suggestions are easy to make but ridiculously difficult to actually do. One hospital visit will leave you with itemized bills of literally hundreds of pages, listing codes and abbreviations you have no clue about. And when you're sick, do you really have the energy or knowledge to dig into it all.
And go to Thailand for an operation? Fine if not urgent, but the travel costs ain't cheap.
I agree that our health insurance system is a farce and a tremendously inefficient burden on everyone. But unless you're all willing to adopt a single payer (meaning government paid and regulated) system, it is what we have to live with. And given the choice of dealing with it or without it, I'd much rather have the insurance (and overpay) for it than do without.
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