The best odds for/against god

this is just to elaborate on the following arguments

"If you believe in God and are right you get heaven. If you are wrong you get dirt.
If you don't believe in God and are right you get dirt.
If you don't believe in God and are wrong you get hell.

Clearly +EV to believe in God."

-Kathleenstand-

-this is what I mean and i just didn't want to retype it..sorry kathleenstand if you'd rather me not quote you

I used to believe the whole everything to gain and nothing to lose be believing in god, but one night I was talking to a christian friend an tried to give him the criteria I would use in deciding whether or not it was good odds to believe in god...

problems occurred when realizing that in order to believe in a specific god (the christian god in this example) you cannot get around haveing to place a better chance of that god existing and rewarding you if you believe in him than the chance that you would be punished for believing in a false deity.. well not really because you would also have to consider chances that there is a god that would reward you if you did not worship but punish you if you believed in a false god... well anyway It gets very confusing and made my brain hurt so i just went to sleep.

since this is a philosophy forum in poker forums, what better a place to discuss this. I'm sure most of you non-believers have thought about this before so..

what things you do need to consider in this evaluation?? I'm sure there are extraordinary amounts of them, but any that you have though of as important??

--if this has had been adressed before, sorry but nothing wrong with a fresh discussion

--i know that there's not much a reason to believe in god if you'ree doing it because of odds.. but let's try to ignor that

[chezlaw]

[ QUOTE ]
this is just to elaborate on the following arguments

"If you believe in God and are right you get heaven. If you are wrong you get dirt.
If you don't believe in God and are right you get dirt.
If you don't believe in God and are wrong you get hell.

Clearly +EV to believe in God."

-Kathleenstand-

-this is what I mean and i just didn't want to retype it..sorry kathleenstand if you'd rather me not quote you

I used to believe the whole everything to gain and nothing to lose be believing in god, but one night I was talking to a christian friend an tried to give him the criteria I would use in deciding whether or not it was good odds to believe in god...

problems occurred when realizing that in order to believe in a specific god (the christian god in this example) you cannot get around haveing to place a better chance of that god existing and rewarding you if you believe in him than the chance that you would be punished for believing in a false deity.. well not really because you would also have to consider chances that there is a god that would reward you if you did not worship but punish you if you believed in a false god... well anyway It gets very confusing and made my brain hurt so i just went to sleep.

since this is a philosophy forum in poker forums, what better a place to discuss this. I'm sure most of you non-believers have thought about this before so..

what things you do need to consider in this evaluation?? I'm sure there are extraordinary amounts of them, but any that you have though of as important??

--if this has had been adressed before, sorry but nothing wrong with a fresh discussion

--i know that there's not much a reason to believe in god if you'ree doing it because of odds.. but let's try to ignor that

[/ QUOTE ]
rest your weary head, the odds dont matter [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

finite chance * infinite upside = finite chance * infinite downside whatever the relative magnitudes of the finite chances.

chez

[ QUOTE ]
rest your weary head, the odds dont matter

finite chance * infinite upside = finite chance * infinite downside whatever the relative magnitudes of the finite chances.

chez

[/ QUOTE ]

that's good advice, but i'll probably be up until 5am becuase i woke up and 3 pm today, so how about humoring me.

you just need to post a little inclusion, not an elaborate evaluation... [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[chezlaw]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
rest your weary head, the odds dont matter

finite chance * infinite upside = finite chance * infinite downside whatever the relative magnitudes of the finite chances.

chez

[/ QUOTE ]

that's good advice, but i'll probably be up until 5am becuase i woke up and 3 pm today, so how about humoring me.

you just need to post a little inclusion, not an elaborate evaluation... [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I dont quite understand your critisism but I'm sure its justified [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I plead tiredness of the sorry saga of Pascals wager, so my bad.

In the other live thread there on the old athiest/agnostic debacle again - no-one can hear my screams. There is a god and what's worse I'm in hell and he has my sense of humour.

chez

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
rest your weary head, the odds dont matter

finite chance * infinite upside = finite chance * infinite downside whatever the relative magnitudes of the finite chances.

chez

[/ QUOTE ]

that's good advice, but i'll probably be up until 5am becuase i woke up and 3 pm today, so how about humoring me.

you just need to post a little inclusion, not an elaborate evaluation... [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I dont quite understand your critisism but I'm sure its justified [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I plead tiredness of the sorry saga of Pascals wager, so my bad.

In the other live thread there on the old athiest/agnostic debacle again - no-one can hear my screams. There is a god and what's worse I'm in hell and he has my sense of humour.

chez

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
rest your weary head

[/ QUOTE ]

ditto (in my best Patrick Swazie voice)

[ QUOTE ]
finite chance * infinite upside = finite chance * infinite downside whatever the relative magnitudes of the finite chances.


[/ QUOTE ]

Why do you view outcomes post-mortem as infinite ranges of numbers? Are they not singular outcomes, either a good or a bad?

[chezlaw]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
finite chance * infinite upside = finite chance * infinite downside whatever the relative magnitudes of the finite chances.


[/ QUOTE ]

Why do you view outcomes post-mortem as infinite ranges of numbers? Are they not singular outcomes, either a good or a bad?

[/ QUOTE ]
Pascals wager is based on the idea that the reward is infinite (eternal bliss) so to any finite objection such as god is very unlikely, Pascal can say that however unlikely god is its still a good bet to believe because of the infinite upside. Thats why no finite objection can overcome Pascals wager but the infinite downside destroys it.

chez

Hiya chez.. how's the holidays? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

oh yeah and exactly how does Pascal's Wager work it's way into this.. i don't think it changes the fact that you would have to put greater odds on one thing than another??

[chezlaw]

[ QUOTE ]
oh yeah and exactly how does Pascal's Wager work it's way into this.. i don't think it changes the fact that you would have to put greater odds on one thing than another??

[/ QUOTE ]

The whole strength of Pascals wager is the infiniteness of the upside. Counter it with the infinite downside and its all over.

chez