Marginal Hand #4 Playing a passive table - Page 5

Entity · #41 04-15-2005, 02:37 PM

Just so you have a general idea, you're currently showing as much profit with J8s as most people do with TT in that same situation. I can see why you've got a fondness for that hand. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Back to the original subject, though, I think a limp here is marginal at best, and that's if you're Clarkmesiter-ish with your postflop skills. It's certainly not hugely +EV and shouldn't affect your winrate greatly on the plus side if you were to add it, but it could easily affect your winrate negatively if you were to add it and play it poorly postflop, which, OOP, is easy to do.

I fold this and I play a lot more marginal hands than most people. I think in general, playing it here is probably slightly -EV.

I do think it's worthwhile re-evaluating that you really seem to be undervaluing pairs, overvaluing suited cards, and undervaluing position -- bigtime. J8s isn't going to hit enough flops hard that you'll want to be OOP for the remainder of the hand.

Rob

grjr · #42 04-15-2005, 02:38 PM

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This is something you may want to consider reviewing. Position is the most important aspect in this game, regardless of the game's texture.

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besides your cards, and villians cards .. in anygame where position is locked in place HE,Omaha, Draw having position is always a plus

I think most seasoned players fall in love with the button, that and getting a rock to your left so you get it twice a round

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I agree COMPLETELY on playing on the button and CO. I'd be a fool not to. My point is that playing these marginal suited hands in early postion on PASSIVE tables is profitable for me and I'd be a fool not to take advantage of that.

John

Edited to add profitable "for me"

grjr · #43 04-15-2005, 02:44 PM

Anybody want to see more of the hand? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Of course I called or this would be stupid.

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. UTG+2 posts a blind of $0.5.
1 fold, Hero calls, UTG+2 (poster) checks, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, 3 folds, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (6 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB bets, BB folds, Hero ??

Ok, I know what you're thinking here but stick around for the surprise ending.

jrz1972 · #44 04-15-2005, 02:46 PM

Call. I want more callers and I have nothing to protect with a raise.

This one is easy.

Entity · #45 04-15-2005, 02:46 PM

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Edited to add profitable "for me"

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The problem I have with this statement is you really don't know that yet, and you won't know for quite a long time whether it is or not.

Rob

Entity · #46 04-15-2005, 02:47 PM

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Call. I want more callers and I have nothing to protect with a raise.

This one is easy.

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It depends on the callers behind you. With his descriptions, it sounds like they're the types to call two cold often, especially on a board like this. I'd probably raise here if I thought that likely.

Rob

grjr · #47 04-15-2005, 02:58 PM

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Edited to add profitable "for me"

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The problem I have with this statement is you really don't know that yet, and you won't know for quite a long time whether it is or not.

Rob

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Well. if I don't play em then I'll never find out. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

grjr · #48 04-15-2005, 03:07 PM

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Call. I want more callers and I have nothing to protect with a raise.

This one is easy.

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Well, I raised. I don't mind people sticking around that paired the 7 or 9 but I'd like to fold out the bare kings and queens in case no one has an ace. Plus, if I can fold out the K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] and Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] then it might save me a pot.

grjr · #49 04-15-2005, 03:11 PM

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. UTG+2 posts a blind of $0.5.
1 fold, Hero calls, UTG+2 (poster) checks, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, 3 folds, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (6 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB bets, BB folds, Hero raises, UTG+2 calls, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, SB calls.

Turn: (6 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG+2 calls, SB raises, Hero ??

C/r from the sb. That was a surprise. We have to just call here right?

numeri · #50 04-15-2005, 03:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. UTG+2 posts a blind of $0.5.
1 fold, Hero calls, UTG+2 (poster) checks, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, 3 folds, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (6 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB bets, BB folds, Hero raises, UTG+2 calls, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, SB calls.

Turn: (6 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG+2 calls, SB raises, Hero ??

C/r from the sb. That was a surprise. We have to just call here right?

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Jumping in on the turn action here...

Why the bet out? I don't think we have enough equity (with an obviously drawing hand) to bet out here. We have maybe 9 outs for the flush and maybe 8 for the straights, but none of those are full outs. If we count all 17, we'll win 17/46 = 37% of the time, but I really think we shouldn't count all of those. I like the 9 clubs better than I like the straight outs, but maybe I'm discounting too much.