Do you/Can you/Would you fold KK here?

[TreyOfLight]

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Just reading this is making me sick to my stomach.

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[Poker60181]

I wouldve moved all in pre flop. But you didnt, so, I wouldve called if I were you. What did you think he had?

[ajmargarine]

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You have to stop thinking about how much you are up each session. That will only lead you down a road toward losing poker. You have to play each hand the way it should be played.

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Yes and no. We can't allow our bankroll, or our current session up or down to influence our in-hand decisions. Which I admit, did contribute *slightly* to how I ended up playing this hand. One long game, make the best decision each time, blah blah blah, I agree.

However, one of the reasons I make a nice chunk of change at internet poker is because I quit winners. I don't say I am going to play x hours, or quit when I am up so many BB's. It's all by feel based upon table situation, my current attitude and image, etc. Poker is my only income right now, and my obligations are minimal, so I can play 24/7 if I want. This allows me to play 6 mini sessions spread out over the day if I choose too. Optimally I would like to win each session, each day, each week, etc. I do it all by feel, no set rules.

Here, I was up $160 on the session. I'm happy with that for a half hour's work. I was leaving the game either after this hand or after one more orbit because I had an obligation away from the computer to take care of.

[ajmargarine]

Thank you blue, for a reasoned response. Most are agreeing I should have pushed preflop, and I agree to this. But I didn't and now I have decisions to make. I knew at the table that raising this flop was a bad idea, but I was leaning toward a check raise. I thought it thru after his raise, and decided to fold. My read on him was that the chances of him bluffing or making a continuation bet of that size, where very low. Although I think he would have just called me preflop with a non pocket pair, your analysis shows I am not dead in the water with the range I put him on.

TY for your response--aj

[NYCNative]

Christ that's weak-tight.

[iceman5]

A 3xBB raise from UTG is not a good idea. vaarying your raises is great, but I wouldnt raise that small from UTG with KK. Youre going to get mulitple callers alot of the time and you are totally out of position. Not to mention the fact that alot of people will reraise you with things like AQ when you only raise to 3BBs and now its tough to figure out if they have a real hand or not.


Pushing preflop is normally not a great idea because most people will fold anything but AA. Although, this guy might not since you already saw him reraise with TT.

Since this guy DID already reraise with TT and he only has $120, I probably would push preflop so you dont second guess yourself on a flop like this.

Since you didnt push, I would fold now. Thats just me though. I like low variance. Pushing in isnt bad either, but your preflop play is what put you in this spot.

I think its pretty read dependant. He reraised with TT, but will he reraise with AK/AQ?

[ajmargarine]

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I wouldve moved all in pre flop. But you didnt, so, I wouldve called if I were you. What did you think he had?

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My read--Preflop, I was 80% certain he had a middle to high pocket pair, 99-AA. He was passive, and I think he would have just called preflop with a non paired hand, AK on down. I don't think he was capable of bluffing or making a continuation bet of this size. I checked with the intention of check raising if he bet small. When he bet semi-big, I was even more certain he had pockets 99-AA, so I folded. Turns out my read was right, he did have one of those pockets. Sadly, it was the only one I was ahead of at the time, QQ.

[soah]

Your logic is flawed.

On the flop you've got six outs against every hand that he is beating you with (4 Q and 2K )and blockers to his QQ. Just get all-in on the flop and hope for the best.

Having six outs is not much to cheer about. If I thought I had six outs I would fold, not raise.

AK or QQ is just as likely as JJ TT AA.

99 should be included too.

Now at showdown both AK and QQ are going to beat you roughly 30% of the time. You are going to beat AA JJ TT roughly 25% of the time. This would changes the odds to 9.4 to 9 which means you will win this matchup slightly more than half the time.

Unimproved AK isn't going to showdown with you, unless you're planning to give him two free cards to get there.

Basically the idea is to keep something like AK or QQ betting as long possible b/c against these two hands you are a favorite and you will be against them at least 1/2 the time

I thought your plan was to go all-in on the flop? You can't have your cake and eat it too. Either you're blowing AK out on the flop and taking the worst of it against AA-99, or you're letting AK/QQ see more cards to try to catch up.

Raising the flop is a poor idea b/c it lets these hands of easy. You may want to consider a passive calling route while folding to an A or 8 on the turn or river.

Again, your initial plan was to get all-in on the flop.

If you check and call and try to improve your hand, you will continue to not have any clue where you are at no matter what comes. If you catch blanks then you still lose to sets and AA. If you catch a Q you lose to AK. If you catch a king you lose to QQ. You don't know what card you want to catch, and all of the cards that improve you put four to a straight on the board. This reduces your implied odds to almost nil. Once again, you are in a position to only get your money in the pot when your hand is no good.

Which means if you raise the river all-in and get called you will be profitably over 60% of time.

No one is going to value bet the river when any king makes a straight, unless they have a king. Even if they do bet it, they aren't calling a raise with it. Raising the river with an obvious one-card non-nut straight cannot possibly be +EV except against the absolute worst of fish.

It's not about having the best hand. It's about having the best hand when the money goes in. And this is not a good situation for it.

I would suggest that you reread TOP. Especially the sections on effective odds and reverse implied odds.

I don't see what the big deal is here. The guy tried to trap a little with his KK and make sure he extracted value from the hands he was beating. On the flop he's no longer beating most of the hands he was beating preflop, so he cuts his losses. It happens sometimes. You can't win em all.

[elus2]

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Just reading this is making me sick to my stomach.

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[ajmargarine]

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[Wow], that's weak-tight.

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Yeah, preflop it sure was. I'm a super TAG tho, so I am not sure how that leaked out. After the flop, I stand by my fold though.